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Was I right to fold here?
Asho28
Member Posts: 811
Evening all,
Bit of a awkward spot in a 2p/4p cash game earlier and would like some advice on whether I should be folding this.
Whilst it would be easy to just shove all in for the sake of 4 quid, I'm interested to know what other players would've have done here, particularly if it was a tournament or higher stakes game. I had at least one of my opponents on a higher pair given the action before me, hence I crumbled.
Naturally, I got my nose well and truly rubbed in it by the time we reached the river, but I guess it's just one of those things.
Still fairly new to online poker and trying to learn and improve my game, so despite the trivial amount of money involved, I would appreciate some opinions on whether I played this scenario correctly or incorrectly.
Many thanks,
Asho
Bit of a awkward spot in a 2p/4p cash game earlier and would like some advice on whether I should be folding this.
Whilst it would be easy to just shove all in for the sake of 4 quid, I'm interested to know what other players would've have done here, particularly if it was a tournament or higher stakes game. I had at least one of my opponents on a higher pair given the action before me, hence I crumbled.
Naturally, I got my nose well and truly rubbed in it by the time we reached the river, but I guess it's just one of those things.
Still fairly new to online poker and trying to learn and improve my game, so despite the trivial amount of money involved, I would appreciate some opinions on whether I played this scenario correctly or incorrectly.
Many thanks,
Asho
| Player | Action | Cards | Amount | Pot | Balance |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Asho28 | Small blind | £0.02 | £0.02 | £7.48 | |
| golften | Big blind | £0.04 | £0.06 | £1.71 | |
| Your hole cards |
| ||||
| AGK6 | Raise | £0.12 | £0.18 | £5.86 | |
| Malps17 | Raise | £0.36 | £0.54 | £4.39 | |
| jacksshaw | Fold | ||||
| WINKY911 | Raise | £1.26 | £1.80 | £5.14 | |
| Asho28 | Fold | ||||
| golften | Fold | ||||
| AGK6 | Fold | ||||
| Malps17 | Call | £0.90 | £2.70 | £3.49 | |
| Flop | |||||
| |||||
| Malps17 | Check | ||||
| WINKY911 | Check | ||||
| Turn | |||||
| |||||
| Malps17 | Check | ||||
| WINKY911 | Check | ||||
| River | |||||
| |||||
| Malps17 | Check | ||||
| WINKY911 | Check | ||||
| Malps17 | Show |
| |||
| WINKY911 | Show |
| |||
| Malps17 | Win | Pair of Jacks | £1.25 | £4.74 | |
| WINKY911 | Win | Pair of Jacks | £1.24 | £6.38 | |
Comments
In a cash game I'd probably call/raise all-in & then reload
if its a reg who,s 4 bet i,m folding. If they,ve been going crazy before i,m jamming.
GL
At these stakes, with this action in front of you I would expect to see your JJ beat a fair bit pre-flop unless the table is going nuts. It's a shove or fold for me and shoving seems too risky without additional information.
Did you have reads on opponents prior to this hand?
Cammy
Also see WINKY on the tables regularly. Fairly tight playing style. Usually comes in with a raise of 16p or folds the hand. Given the size of the three-bet I'm putting him on QQ, KK, AK or AA, three of which are miles ahead of my hand.
I also forgot to mention that I ran QQ and KK into Aces last week (and lost the hands), so that probably played a part in my decision to fold.
I think based on the above comments, I think a fold isn't unreasonable here, although a shove would probably have some merit too. I had a stack of about 180 big blinds at the time, so seemed reasonable to abandon this particular hand. If it had been a tourney (e.g a bounty hunter), I may well have shoved.
I am surprised that both my opponents didn't go all in preflop, however, and in the end the hand just fizzled out.
A bit of a strange one.
Asho
I have hardly played any 100bb cash so there will be loads of players who will be better placed to assist but for what its worth I would be folding here without any reads that players were extremely aggressive. Also, try not to be results orientated once you see opponents hands. It is about the range of hands an opponent will have rather than the specific hand the opponent has in this one hand.
EP MP and the BTN will all have narrow ranges.
MP normally 3bets JJ+ AQ+ ATs+ and KQs but at nl4 even that is too wide, at nl4 most players will 3bet QQ KK AA and AK.
BTN 4bet is extremely tight for sure, QQ+ AK, even at the high stakes these cold 4bets won't get than many weaker combos cold 4betting.
The other problem is when you do call EP or MP could then go on to 5bet shove and given the ranges that is gonna happen more often especially MP.
If I myself were in your shoes I'd be cry calling with KK. QQ or worse is a fold since neither MP or BTN will have much you dominate, you don't have the odds to hit set and your are not gonna be happy stacking off post flop.
your equity vs QQ+ AK is 36% but that's assuming EP or MP didn't 5bet AI and nobody bet postflop.
As played you can see yourself AK didn't bet at all post flop, AA KK and QQ all will for sure, assume the board was T high or worse you are gonna X/C losing full stack to the better OP unless you do lots of folding post flop.
As mattbates said, don't be too results orientated, think about the long term picture how you will do vs the opponents ranges. So much bad stuff can happen, by calling the 4bet. MP might 5bet, you call 4bet then X/C post flop as JJ OP losing full stack to AA, you call the 4bet then X/F post flop or you fail to win more vs AK as it decides to give up post flop. even hitting your set isn't always good as you could lose to a better set or an AK straight.
With regards to being results orientated, that definitely can be a flaw in my game. When considering what hands an opponent might be jamming/raising me with, I sometimes think of what they are beating me with, rather than what range of hands they could have. I need to realise that losing the hand doesn't necessarily mean I played it badly.
Thanks Matt
Pleasing that I made the correct fold, based on your experience of cash games.
I certainly wouldn't be calling with JJ in any circumstances; it would be an all in or fold. Like you say, if I call and end up reaching the flop without an all-in occurring, a 10 high flop is gonna result in me losing my stack if one of my opponents has a higher pocket pair, which in this scenario is likely.
Ultimately, although I would've been good in this particular hand, I think it's clear that a fold pre-flop here is the right play over time, especially at these stakes like you alluded to.
Should either of the AK hands have shoved or is taking a flop okay here?
That AK in MP should be folding against this 4bet especially at this stake, BTN is most certainly not gonna cold 4bet as a bluff. Even on higher stakes that AK is probably a fold, because people know ranges and in this spot both EP and MP will be strong and tight therefore BTN is not gonna do many cold 4bet bluffs.
Nobody can Go AI without worse than QQ and even that is sometimes folded (especially if you in the blinds yet to act), your fold equity is really low in this spot since ranges are extremely tight and when they do call your AK and JJ are gonna be dominated almost everytime.
Craig covered it off well, yes it's a fold.
If you had QQ you might have more of a decision, but this most likely would still be a fold.
And don't worry to much about the outcome of a hand once you have folded.
Well done, given the heavy action, in finding the correct fold.