Bluffcatcher into a bluff?

tonyp142

Thought this hand was interesting. Posted up to decision point. Are you jamming river here?

Think pre flop is standard. Then I get roped into calling flop due to sizing. Probably folding turn often but then I improve, although felt in play that I still essentially had a bluff catcher. Then he checks to me on what feels like a terrible card for his sets & better two pairs.

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
skyflyer	Small blind		150.00	150.00	18960.00
gaming123	Big blind		300.00	450.00	10655.00
	Your hole cards	K Q
pizzled1	Fold
loololollo	Fold
snoxx11	Fold
tonyp142	Raise		600.00	1050.00	12837.50
skyflyer	Raise		2250.00	3300.00	16710.00
gaming123	Fold
tonyp142	Call		1800.00	5100.00	11037.50
Flop
		K 3 A
skyflyer	Bet		1200.00	6300.00	15510.00
tonyp142	Call		1200.00	7500.00	9837.50
Turn
		Q
skyflyer	Bet		1800.00	9300.00	13710.00
tonyp142	Call		1800.00	11100.00	8037.50
River
		J
skyflyer	Check

percival09

Sup Tony. Interesting hand, I agree. I agree with your line up til the river. Hmm. We certainly are at the bottom of our range, we're not beating much that was betting for value on the earlier streets, apart from some strangely played weak Ax combinations.

The question we have to ask when considering the jam is: are we blocking hands that we're losing to that we want to fold? The answer here is yes, we block AK, AQ combinations which isn't great. But nearly anything we have on this run out will be the same. The crucial blocker here is the Adx, since with that card our opponent can eliminate many nut hands from our range. I think the best hand to bluff with would probably be an AdJx kinda hand, although it's stronger than KQ it should perform much better as a bluff and still lose nearly as often as KQ at showdown.

Interesting spot, I would likely jam against respectable opponents but then I would expect to be snapped if he has some 2p involving Ad. Against a random player in a low stakes MTT I check seems good since I've seeen weird things. It's also possible that our opponent is not sophisticated enough to play AdKx this way and snap our bluff on the river, or ever slow play a stronger hand to bluffcatch, in which case we can actually jam. I guess I've highlighted different possible lines depending on reads, I would probably jam for lols. Ugh, I'm torn between jam and check, both have their merits - blockers aren't good for a bluff but it's unlikely our opponent is sophisticated enough to make strong plays on the river like x/c AdKx or AdQx

Angmar2626

Omg a hand where Skyflyer doesn't cbet small then bomb the turn

tonyp142

Thanks Percival. Agree with that.not sure if player would do that with the best bluffcatcher but interesting to think about. I did jam and got the fold but I can’t really figure if I ever get better to fold... feels as played with the river fold like he 3-bet with a suited connector and just tried to get me to fold the weaker portion of my range and then gave up. Or perhaps he had a suited wheel ace and went very thin for value on the turn.

Itsover4u

we have enough showdown equity vs this opponent who 3b frequently to just take the check back surely? I also think this hand is a good candidate to 4b bluff with vs this particular opponent although it could not be recommended vs most on sky

tonyp142

yeah knew it was a good 4-bet candidate and prefer it as a 4-bet btn vs sb than in co vs btn.

You clearly have played with this opponent more than me so can’t argue with the fact you think we have enough showdown here

percival09

Yeah, after looking at it again I agree with Itsover4u. I think it's a check. We're blocking too many hands we would want to fold that we're losing to and beating too many random bluffs that he could have, as you mentioned. Although you're right too, it's difficult to actually identify many of those bluffs without reads on his 3b tendencies. Also, after considering the bet sizing again, we *should* actually have some combinations of the lower pocket pairs with diamonds to bluff with here. For example, I think some combinations of 99-55 with a single diamond should be roped into making it til the river in a well-played, ideal situation.

percival09

percival09 said:

Yeah, after looking at it again I agree with Itsover4u. I think it's a check. We're blocking too many hands we would want to fold that we're losing to and beating too many random bluffs that he could have, as you mentioned. Although you're right too, it's difficult to actually identify many of those bluffs without reads on his 3b tendencies. Also, after considering the bet sizing again, we *should* actually have some combinations of the lower pocket pairs with diamonds to bluff with here. For example, I think some combinations of 99-55 with a single diamond should be roped into making it til the river in a well-played, ideal situation and it's prob those guys that end up bluffing. check and hope for the best

percival09

percival09 said:

percival09 said:

Yeah, after looking at it again I agree with Itsover4u. I think it's a check. We're blocking too many hands we would want to fold that we're losing to and beating too many random bluffs that he could have, as you mentioned. Although you're right too, it's difficult to actually identify many of those bluffs without reads on his 3b tendencies. Also, after considering the bet sizing again, we *should* actually have some combinations of the lower pocket pairs with diamonds to bluff with here. For example, I think some combinations of 99-55 with a single diamond should be roped into making it til the river in a well-played, ideal situation and it's prob those guys that end up bluffing. check and hope for the best. Meh, I still think jamming would work vs certain opponents lol