Okay, some of these posts are pretty comical to say the least, everything from overall game theory to Tikay's grammar :P ("badder" [i think you mean 'Worse', Tikay ])
I think TommyD put it in the most concise way as short as poss, but i'll chip in with a bit of wordage
Anywho, Straddling and whether it's + or - EV is based on NUMEROUS factors. It's even possible for a losing player to play BETTER when the straddle is on than when it isn't! On the whole though, as a general theory behind straddling, it's definitely NOT something you want to do be doing if you're the only one doing it. You'd need to have suge a massive edge on your table for it to... 1) Still be profitable, 2) Be more profitable than before!
- Reasons - 1) When straddling, you're committing dead money to the hand. You're putting in 2bb without even seeing your cards! Putting in money blind can never be a good thing surely? Think about it this way. By putting the straddle on, you're forced to (effectively) be min-raising 72o, 94o, T3o UTG. If you had a choice to either open those hands, or not, you'd choose to muck them wouldn't you? (because it's on the whole, not +EV to open those hands 99% of the time :P). So you're making a -EV decision by being forced to play your garbage, when you'd still be able to play your good hands in the same way anyway! 2) You're being dealt the 3rd worst position at the table, and will be out of position almost always post-flop on your opponents, which will make it borderline impossible to be consistantly +EV. 3) You're making stacks twice as shallow and decreasing your overall edge (again, exceptions can arise, such as people having no clue what ranges to 3b shove, open shove etc), but it's widely considered the deeper the better for +EV players.
It really is a 'feel' thing when wanting to put the straddle on. If you have multiple nits at the table who are playing well above their roll, get the straddle on and pick up all that dead money pre! 2x stakes will make them uncomfortable and you'll just print money by stealing blinds. If however you've got a bunch of Laggro-spewtards, do you really want to risk them nitting it up by 2x'ing the blinds? Maybe some people would play MORE LAGGRO! As said, it's a 'feel' thing for the most part, and just that standard poker skill of adjusting to your situation and acting accordingly.
Sorry for the ramble, and gl at the tables everyone. Cheers, Carlos Smitalos P.S. Straddling FTW tho. GAMBOL-GAMBOL!!
Okay, some of these posts are pretty comical to say the least, everything from overall game theory to Tikay's grammar :P ("badder" [i think you mean 'Worse', Tikay ])
Lol, it was deliberate, to be fair - I try & put a little "hook" into every Post, they gat a bit boring, & lame, otherwise.
straddling is obv -ev (the definition of Expected Value = long term profitability of a play) so if we're asking If i straddle at every oppotunity for the next 1000 times will i show a profit, then theb answer is without question, NO, you'll lose money - for reasons stated above by Carlos.
Obviously as well if the whole table does it its EV0 regardless of who's the best/worst player, some people might feel they have an edge with higher stake/shallower stacks, but the EV of the straddle isn't affected by this.
This however, doesn't mean straddling doesn't provide some short term benefits, or isn't an optimal play in certain situations. I elect to straddle near on 100% in these situations,
1) there is a "fish" at the table who is straddling everytime he gets the oppurtunity, I feel like if he see's i'm straddling as well as him he gives you credit for a bit more "heart" and gives you more action than someone who is not. Appearing like a NIT is generally bad for business in live cash games, as you get such few hands when you get big hands you want ACTION
2) if it's short handed and there are tight players on the BTN, if say its 5handed and the BTN is very tight, Im pretty inclined to straddle here as often it's going to buy you position in the hand.
3) If there is someone tilting/going mental at the table, always nice to straddle in these spots speashly if your OOP to him, means you get a higer% chance of getting to flops with him.
4) If you are IP on weak players with deepstacks, nice to straddle here because it means you'll get to flops more often with them in this spot, you get ISO'd a little less often on average when you straddle as well.
5) if i'm a bit bored and fancy gambling - -EV yes, but nothing wrong with it
In a lot of games "Missisippi Straddles" are allowed where you can straddle from anywhere on the table (first option always to the BTN) this starts the action preflop to the left of the last straddle, games with unlimited missisippi straddles can get v big v quick cos you can have 5/6 straddles on sometimes regardless of where the BTN is, this type of straddle give way way more oppurtunities to post +EV straddles, speshly frmo the BTN, rarely is it not +EV to straddle on your btn.
straddling is obv -ev (the definition of Expected Value = long term profitability of a play) so if we're asking If i straddle at every oppotunity for the next 1000 times will i show a profit, then theb answer is without question, NO, you'll lose money - for reasons stated above by Carlos. Obviously as well if the whole table does it its EV0 regardless of who's the best/worst player, some people might feel they have an edge with higher stake/shallower stacks, but the EV of the straddle isn't affected by this. This however, doesn't mean straddling doesn't provide some short term benefits, or isn't an optimal play in certain situations. I elect to straddle near on 100% in these situations, 1) there is a "fish" at the table who is straddling everytime he gets the oppurtunity, I feel like if he see's i'm straddling as well as him he gives you credit for a bit more "heart" and gives you more action than someone who is not. Appearing like a NIT is generally bad for business in live cash games, as you get such few hands when you get big hands you want ACTION 2) if it's short handed and there are tight players on the BTN, if say its 5handed and the BTN is very tight, Im pretty inclined to straddle here as often it's going to buy you position in the hand. 3) If there is someone tilting/going mental at the table, always nice to straddle in these spots speashly if your OOP to him, means you get a higer% chance of getting to flops with him. 4) If you are IP on weak players with deepstacks, nice to straddle here because it means you'll get to flops more often with them in this spot, you get ISO'd a little less often on average when you straddle as well. 5) if i'm a bit bored and fancy gambling - -EV yes, but nothing wrong with it In a lot of games "Missisippi Straddles" are allowed where you can straddle from anywhere on the table (first option always to the BTN) this starts the action preflop to the left of the last straddle, games with unlimited missisippi straddles can get v big v quick cos you can have 5/6 straddles on sometimes regardless of where the BTN is, this type of straddle give way way more oppurtunities to post +EV straddles, speshly frmo the BTN, rarely is it not +EV to straddle on your btn. Posted by MkeItRain
Fine Post - listen up guys, this guy can play - he is the author of far & away the BEST Poker Blog on the net right now. Hard to believe he is only 12. He blogged about winning - and losing - $50k Cash Pots a week ago.
Seriously, young man......really appreciate you popping across here with occasional Posts.
How is Vegas? I'll be there on Monday, happy days, & I'm SO gonna give you a mashing at Heads Up Omaha Cash, OK? That assumes you have not got any homework to do, obv.
i think ive actually learnt something. ty guys. Scotty/tommy/tikay very good responces. As well as others on page 2. Ive literally just woken up so will have a proper read through again when i can absorb.
The game i usually straddle in is a local .50p/.50p game usually get a lot of fish and about an hour in your looking at most players being deep. Also im not the only straddler.
i think ive actually learnt something. ty guys. Scotty/tommy/tikay very good responces. As well as others on page 2. Ive literally just woken up so will have a proper read through again when i can absorb. The game i usually straddle in is a local .50p/.50p game usually get a lot of fish and about an hour in your looking at most players being deep. Also im not the only straddler. Ty for responces. Posted by The_Don90
YOU may think they are fish, Don, but beware lack of respect for your opponents.
Players less experienced, or able, are not at much disadvantage in the short term, you know.
Just about every living poker player calls their opponents "fish". Logic suggests that can't be quite right......
i think ive actually learnt something. ty guys. Scotty/tommy/tikay very good responces. As well as others on page 2. Ive literally just woken up so will have a proper read through again when i can absorb. The game i usually straddle in is a local .50p/.50p game usually get a lot of fish and about an hour in your looking at most players being deep. Also im not the only straddler. Ty for responces. Posted by The_Don90
When Phil Ivey is in the hand as the straddle, it's still -ev for him on that hand. As I said earlier, the only advantage to straddling comes when everyone, and I do mean everyone, agrees to straddle. It's pure maths, more money in the middle, more people playing incorrectly out of the now three sets of blinds out of position. Got to agree with Tikay re: The fish comment. I have never called anyone a fish. When I started I used the word donk a couple of times under my breath and frankly I was out of order. Also just labelling them 'fish' doesn't help you, focus on if they are too laggy, passive, maniac-like etc. I only know of one player who can play at the top level by just calling people either 'good' or, ahem, not good (The Camel uses another term for the later category but as I'm not GregHogg I won't be saying it online).
when i say fish i mean most of them cant lay down a draw. Tbh the casino also runs a 1/2 game and a 2/5 game which the better players play. Id love to be able to play in those but tbh ive sat and watched and i see no value in them anyways.
Comments
I think TommyD put it in the most concise way as short as poss, but i'll chip in with a bit of wordage
Anywho, Straddling and whether it's + or - EV is based on NUMEROUS factors. It's even possible for a losing player to play BETTER when the straddle is on than when it isn't!
On the whole though, as a general theory behind straddling, it's definitely NOT something you want to do be doing if you're the only one doing it. You'd need to have suge a massive edge on your table for it to... 1) Still be profitable, 2) Be more profitable than before!
- Reasons -
1) When straddling, you're committing dead money to the hand. You're putting in 2bb without even seeing your cards! Putting in money blind can never be a good thing surely? Think about it this way. By putting the straddle on, you're forced to (effectively) be min-raising 72o, 94o, T3o UTG. If you had a choice to either open those hands, or not, you'd choose to muck them wouldn't you? (because it's on the whole, not +EV to open those hands 99% of the time :P). So you're making a -EV decision by being forced to play your garbage, when you'd still be able to play your good hands in the same way anyway!
2) You're being dealt the 3rd worst position at the table, and will be out of position almost always post-flop on your opponents, which will make it borderline impossible to be consistantly +EV.
3) You're making stacks twice as shallow and decreasing your overall edge (again, exceptions can arise, such as people having no clue what ranges to 3b shove, open shove etc), but it's widely considered the deeper the better for +EV players.
It really is a 'feel' thing when wanting to put the straddle on. If you have multiple nits at the table who are playing well above their roll, get the straddle on and pick up all that dead money pre! 2x stakes will make them uncomfortable and you'll just print money by stealing blinds. If however you've got a bunch of Laggro-spewtards, do you really want to risk them nitting it up by 2x'ing the blinds? Maybe some people would play MORE LAGGRO! As said, it's a 'feel' thing for the most part, and just that standard poker skill of adjusting to your situation and acting accordingly.
Sorry for the ramble, and gl at the tables everyone.
Cheers,
Carlos Smitalos
P.S. Straddling FTW tho.
Okay, some of these posts are pretty comical to say the least, everything from overall game theory to Tikay's grammar :P ("badder" [i think you mean 'Worse', Tikay
Lol, it was deliberate, to be fair - I try & put a little "hook" into every Post, they gat a bit boring, & lame, otherwise.
How about "worser"?
PS - It's "GAMBLE" not "GAMBOL". Touche?
Seriously, young man......really appreciate you popping across here with occasional Posts.
How is Vegas? I'll be there on Monday, happy days, & I'm SO gonna give you a mashing at Heads Up Omaha Cash, OK? That assumes you have not got any homework to do, obv.
x
The game i usually straddle in is a local .50p/.50p game usually get a lot of fish and about an hour in your looking at most players being deep. Also im not the only straddler.
Ty for responces.
Players less experienced, or able, are not at much disadvantage in the short term, you know.
Just about every living poker player calls their opponents "fish". Logic suggests that can't be quite right......