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Short Stacking

Lambert180Lambert180 Member Posts: 12,197
edited November 2011 in Poker Chat
Hey guys,

I was just wondering if you guys could gimme any tips/advice on ways to improve my game when I'm say 15BBs deep or less in a tournament.

Obviously you're gonna be likely to be around this stack in the late (and most important) stages of alot of MTTs. I also spend ALOT of time with this kind of stack because I'm always playing DYMs these days.

I know I'm doing pretty well with my DYMs and so my short stack game must be pretty good but there's ALWAYS room for improvement and it is something I feel I struggle with in MTTs

I'd grateful of any tips on how wide do you think we can shove against fairly solid players, how wide against the donkeys who could call with the likes of J7off sometimes.

Any online training vids (free ones lol) or suggesting good books for this kinda thing is also appreciated.

Thanks
Paul
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Comments

  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH Member Posts: 17,929
    edited November 2011

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  • Lambert180Lambert180 Member Posts: 12,197
    edited November 2011
    In Response to Re: Short Stacking:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/TheIllegit
    Posted by DOHHHHHHH
    Just watched the first one, I do love a good poker video with commentary but it doesn't seem hugely short stack related...
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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH Member Posts: 17,929
    edited November 2011
    There are 100+ vids on there, covering most/all tourny scenarios....

    Most of them will start deeper and end short stacked, for obvious reasons. lol. 
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  • BigRonnieCBigRonnieC Member Posts: 186
    edited November 2011
    You just have to be patient looking for a decent opportunity. You also have to consider the blinds, your opponents, your image, your position and, of course, what part in the tournament you are at.

    If you're in late position, late in the tournament, and there's a nit in the blinds, shove with any 2. It tightens up so much near the end that you get to see so many orbits and pick up the patterns of everyone at your table. This will let you bluff, defend your blinds, steal blinds and know when to fold.

    I will say that I think 15BBs is too much to shove. I'd wait until around 10BB or so, or at least just before your stack drops so low that you lose your fold equity. If you get a monster hand (AA,KK) do a normal raise (say 2 x BB or min-raise a raiser - they think you are weak trying to steal). If you are to act first post flop, and it's a dry flop, C/R, maybe all-in if you think they will call.

    If you have position, try to extract value but don't be afraid to shove if they look like they're drawing.

    Of course, you could just get to the final table where 5 get paid, have a comfortable stack, and do this:

    Hand History #435105955 (19:01 08/11/2011)

    PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
    BigRonnieC Small blind  200.00 200.00 11210.00
    LMAJOD Big blind  400.00 600.00 12143.75
     Your hole cards
    • K
    • K
    		   
    laura5 Call  400.00 1000.00 28378.75
    XXKIPXX Fold     
    tubbs922 Fold     
    jimstor111 Fold     
    BigRonnieC Raise  1800.00 2800.00 9410.00
    LMAJOD All-in  12143.75 14943.75 0.00
    laura5 Fold     
    BigRonnieC All-in  9410.00 24353.75 0.00
    LMAJOD Unmatched bet  1133.75 23220.00 1133.75
    BigRonnieC Show
    • K
    • K
    		   
    LMAJOD Show
    • A
    • A
    		   
    Flop
      
    • 4
    • 7
    • 5
    		   
    Turn
      
    • 5
    		   
    River
      
    • 8
    		   
    LMAJOD Win Two Pairs, Aces and 5s 23220.00  24353.75
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  • Lambert180Lambert180 Member Posts: 12,197
    edited November 2011
    In Response to Re: Short Stacking:
    You just have to be patient looking for a decent opportunity. You also have to consider the blinds, your opponents, your image, your position and, of course, what part in the tournament you are at. If you're in late position, late in the tournament, and there's a nit in the blinds, shove with any 2. It tightens up so much near the end that you get to see so many orbits and pick up the patterns of everyone at your table. This will let you bluff, defend your blinds, steal blinds and know when to fold. I will say that I think 15BBs is too much to shove. I'd wait until around 10BB or so, or at least just before your stack drops so low that you lose your fold equity. If you get a monster hand (AA,KK) do a normal raise (say 2 x BB or min-raise a raiser - they think you are weak trying to steal). If you are to act first post flop, and it's a dry flop, C/R, maybe all-in if you think they will call. If you have position, try to extract value but don't be afraid to shove if they look like they're drawing. Of course, you could just get to the final table where 5 get paid, have a comfortable stack, and do this: Hand History #435105955 (19:01 08/11/2011) Player Action Cards Amount Pot Balance BigRonnieC Small blind   200.00 200.00 11210.00 LMAJOD Big blind   400.00 600.00 12143.75   Your hole cards K K       laura5 Call   400.00 1000.00 28378.75 XXKIPXX Fold         tubbs922 Fold         jimstor111 Fold         BigRonnieC Raise   1800.00 2800.00 9410.00 LMAJOD All-in   12143.75 14943.75 0.00 laura5 Fold         BigRonnieC All-in   9410.00 24353.75 0.00 LMAJOD Unmatched bet   1133.75 23220.00 1133.75 BigRonnieC Show K K       LMAJOD Show A A       Flop     4 7 5       Turn     5       River     8       LMAJOD Win Two Pairs, Aces and 5s 23220.00   24353.75
    Posted by BigRonnieC
    Well I always fold my KK when they have AA ;)

    Thanks for the input and no offence but it's a bit too general and basic, I'm a pretty competent player and was looking for a bit more detailed/advanced info on how to essentially perfect my short stack game ro suggestions of books to read to help me perfect it. I remember that James Aiken (something like that, the one someone said looked like a nerd lol), his tip was to learn how to play short stack as you can perfect it and become fairly unexploitable with that stack, then it just comes down to coolers/bad beats etc.
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  • The_Don90The_Don90 Member Posts: 9,818
    edited November 2011
    short stack you just need to have a little extra bit of guts imo. Find spots where 3bet shoving is good is the biggest help. Although i find shoving consistantly also helps but just watch how much u do, do it.
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  • Lambert180Lambert180 Member Posts: 12,197
    edited November 2011
    In Response to Re: Short Stacking:
    There are 100+ vids on there, covering most/all tourny scenarios.... Most of them will start deeper and end short stacked, for obvious reasons. lol. 
    Posted by DOHHHHHHH
    Lol ok fair enough, I'll give them a go. Is he a pretty well known player then? or have you just spotted him on youtube or what?
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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH Member Posts: 17,929
    edited November 2011
    Best free tourny vids I've ever found. 

    Spose u could skope the guy and check out his record.
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  • Lambert180Lambert180 Member Posts: 12,197
    edited November 2011
    In Response to Re: Short Stacking:
    Best free tourny vids I've ever found.  Spose u could skope the guy and check out his record.
    Posted by DOHHHHHHH
    Yeah I've just watched that 7 part series of him coming 1st place for 11k. They are really good. I'll scope him in the morning.
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  • MP33MP33 Member Posts: 6,308
    edited November 2011
    In Response to Re: Short Stacking:
    You just have to be patient looking for a decent opportunity. You also have to consider the blinds, your opponents, your image, your position and, of course, what part in the tournament you are at. If you're in late position, late in the tournament, and there's a nit in the blinds, shove with any 2. It tightens up so much near the end that you get to see so many orbits and pick up the patterns of everyone at your table. This will let you bluff, defend your blinds, steal blinds and know when to fold. I will say that I think 15BBs is too much to shove. I'd wait until around 10BB or so, or at least just before your stack drops so low that you lose your fold equity. If you get a monster hand (AA,KK) do a normal raise (say 2 x BB or min-raise a raiser - they think you are weak trying to steal). If you are to act first post flop, and it's a dry flop, C/R, maybe all-in if you think they will call. If you have position, try to extract value but don't be afraid to shove if they look like they're drawing. Of course, you could just get to the final table where 5 get paid, have a comfortable stack, and do this: Hand History #435105955 (19:01 08/11/2011) Player Action Cards Amount Pot Balance BigRonnieC Small blind   200.00 200.00 11210.00 LMAJOD Big blind   400.00 600.00 12143.75   Your hole cards K K       laura5 Call   400.00 1000.00 28378.75 XXKIPXX Fold         tubbs922 Fold         jimstor111 Fold         BigRonnieC Raise   1800.00 2800.00 9410.00 LMAJOD All-in   12143.75 14943.75 0.00 laura5 Fold         BigRonnieC All-in   9410.00 24353.75 0.00 LMAJOD Unmatched bet   1133.75 23220.00 1133.75 BigRonnieC Show K K       LMAJOD Show A A       Flop     4 7 5       Turn     5       River     8       LMAJOD Win Two Pairs, Aces and 5s 23220.00   24353.75
    Posted by BigRonnieC

    Know how you feel

    it wasnt the Survivor series was it ?

    i got through from a quid to the saturday FT in that position then got my AK wiped out by AJ , for what would have been my biggest payout on Sky - over £650 . Got nothing
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