Tonight's Sunday Roller - with James & Trevor (***OFFICIAL LIVE SHOW THREAD***)

J-Hartigan

Hello, it's me again!

At 9pm, I'll be joined in the Sky Poker studio by Trevor Harris. We'll be following the progress of the players in the £8k Guaranteed Sunday Roller (which starts at 7pm - register HERE).

Expect four hours of live coverage of this tournament on channel 865, plus plenty of poker chat. Our strategy topic for the evening will be...

SHORT STACK PLAY

In the mid-late stages of a tournament, how do you play a <15bb stack?

Are you open-shoving, or looking for spots to come over the top of an opening raise?

Does the absence of antes on Sky Poker allow you to narrow your shoving range?

Do you think it's acceptable to raise-fold with this stack size?

Are you still willing to call a min-raise in the big blind with a marginal hand?

You know what to do - e-mail your contributions and questions to skyopen@bskyb.com or post in this forum thread.

The_Don90

15BB stacks are pretty easy to play imo. Watch someone raise 3bet jam, win chips move on. Although Antes dont effect my shoving range at all. I do play on other places where they have them, be it live or online and i find its just the same game that im getting my stack gobbled out of every hand. IMO if its a shove it should remain a shove weather im getting anted away or not.

EvilPingu

Open shove usually, re-raise if I've got a hand. About the min raise, I usually only call if I've got a big pocket pair, with the intention of shoving on almost any flop and letting the opponent hit something that he can't get away from, and double me up or something. Occasionally get tempted with suited connectors but probably shouldn't be calling a min raise with them and that's something that I've stopped myself from doing now - tend to just re-raise all in and see 5 cards if I get called, if not then I'm happy with the blinds plus the initial raiser's money.

Can't answer the ante question as I've never played in a game with antes! Something I'd like to see on Sky, not in every tournament though. Don't imagine I'd play much differently with them, to be honest.

Raise-fold depends on stack size - If I've got 15bb, I raise on the button to pinch blinds with junk and get re-raised (Never happens, honest. Pocket Aces every time), I'm not calling off the remaining 12-13bb that I have back. As with everything in Poker, it depends on the situation Usually, anything less than 6 or 7 big blinds, I just shove as opposed to putting in a small raise anyway, so don't often end up in that situation.

Lambert180

Hey guys,

Looking forward to another great show tonight.

Short Stack Play
I did actually ask a question about this on the GPC recently and it was very briefly discussed on Chatbox with Carlo, but yeah <15BBs, is definitely a shove or fold stack, whether it be an open shove or a rejam. I do think the lack of antes should allow you to narrow your range because you're losing less chips per orbit and so can afford to wait longer for a hand to shove before getting to a point where you basically have to shove any 2 or be blinded out. With antes you also have to make sure you don't go too low because with antes included, the smaller your shove, them antes can give the big stacks much better odds and can encourage them to call with virtually any 2.

I don't think you can bet/fold this stack and if you've been min-raised and you're on the BB, you need to make a decision there and then, shove or fold. I don't recommend flat calling pre for about 15-20% of your stack hoping to hit when you won't 2/3 of the time.

The_Don90

In Response to Re: Tonight's Sunday Roller - with James & Trevor (***OFFICIAL LIVE SHOW THREAD***):

Open shove usually, re-raise if I've got a hand. About the min raise, I usually only call if I've got a big pocket pair, with the intention of shoving on almost any flop and letting the opponent hit something that he can't get away from, and double me up or something. Occasionally get tempted with suited connectors but probably shouldn't be calling a min raise with them and that's something that I've stopped myself from doing now - tend to just re-raise all in and see 5 cards if I get called, if not then I'm happy with the blinds plus the initial raiser's money. Can't answer the ante question as I've never played in a game with antes! Something I'd like to see on Sky, not in every tournament though. Don't imagine I'd play much differently with them, to be honest. Raise-fold depends on stack size - If I've got 15bb, I raise on the button to pinch blinds with junk and get re-raised (Never happens, honest. Pocket Aces every time), I'm not calling off the remaining 12-13bb that I have back. As with everything in Poker, it depends on the situation Usually, anything less than 6 or 7 big blinds, I just shove as opposed to putting in a small raise anyway, so don't often end up in that situation.
Posted by EvilPingu

i do play different when i have a bigger stack as people do teand to stack much lighter, meanin i can put more pressure on with a wider range and be comfortable calling with that wider range. but my short stack play without antes is pretty loose anyways, id rather double or get on wiv another one. I know this sounds -EV but it works for me.

LOL_RAISE

open jamming 15bbs to win 1.5bb is too much imo it's only a 10% increase in your stack.
minraise/folding ftw

J-Hartigan

Great stuff so far.

Keep 'em coming!

The_Don90

In Response to Re: Tonight's Sunday Roller - with James & Trevor (***OFFICIAL LIVE SHOW THREAD***):

open jamming 15bbs to win 1.5bb is too much imo it's only a 10% increase in your stack. minraise/folding ftw
Posted by LOL_RAISE

yea i agree this is why i prefer to shove over an open at this stage. They raise 2.5x im no picking up 3BB and destorying my rep for when i shove with the nuts. Although tbh im prob wrong lol. Works for me in the times ive needed it.

acebarry10

Hi James, Trev

I think it is a personal decison at what stage you shove, I think 15 BB,s is enough to play with, but, depends on the table as well, if you spot someone who will fold to a shove for instance, or if you have the nuts, it may be worthwhile shoving as they will hopefuly think you are trying to steal, but I would probs go as low as 5, 6 or 7 BB,s.

DUNMIDOSH

I was short stacked in last thursdays £15k BH had about 10 bb left shoved with an ace and was called by a shorter stack. I lost to a pair of 9's went out shortly afterwards in 66th place 6 out of the money.
If I'd walked away from the table made a cuo of coffee and just let my stack drip away I would have cashed.
I'm a very bad poker player but the point I'm trying to make is I made the mistake of convincing myself I had to shove with only 10 bb left  when in truth I should have reacted to circumstances and should never set a ratio of big blinds to induce shoving
Use blinds as a benchmarks not tablets set in stone!
I guess thats why Redmond, Wayne, Scotty77 and Peg 1 etc are so good. As with most sports natural timing is the difference between mediocrity  and excellence

salad24

Got into the roller through league stars (amazing) so looking forward to that tonight, hope im still in by the time you come on air! haha, have a good show guys.

liamboi11

imo i think you can raise 2xbb-2.5bb and fold depending on your opponent if the opponent is really tight for example and you know they are not goin 2 come over the top unless they have a big hand well i`m goin 2 keep doin it until they get that big hand.regards to open shove with 15bbs is far too much imo you can go right down to 7-10bbs and look to get the chips in but like the don said i`m always looking for spots to re-shove over an opponents initial raise with 10-15bbs that is opening a lot of pots but also can fold a hand.

HAPPYNIGE4

Evening guys , won my seat via a winner takes all last night in the Roller. Had to work hard after 1st hour of two car crashes, only to come up against SUV on this table. Please show this hand , as am feeling so sick still. ?
440008285Hold'em£8k Sunday RollerNo Limit100.00/200.008103.7416507.48-8103.74DetailsLove the show still mind

HAPPYNIGE4

Please show my out hand guys , just let me have a bit out of the game ????

Lambert180

Hey guys,

Thanks for the compliments on my short stack chat...

Just got a question that I've asked various people at Sky before and not had an answer yet. The SPT event I'm trying to get to this year will be Blackpool because it's the only one close to Liverpool, and this year the event is a 2day £220 Bounty Hunter. Has it been decided yet how much of the buy-in will be a headprize, just thinking if alot of people who have satellited in could knock one person out and make a decent profit then it's gonna be a CRAZY tournament... so you think it might be say 25% of the buy-in is head prize instead of 50% or what?

Thanks
Paul

Talon

  When thinking about how to play a short stack (<15BB) ther are a few things that come to mind.

  Firstly  what stage of the tournament is it?. If it is early on then a 15BB shove will get called down for definate. If it is late on then 15BB could easily be an average stack and therefore you are not sat in a bad position at all. It is only in the middle stages when it becomes harder to know how to deal with them.


  Secondly if my stack were down to that level the first thing i would be doing is making sure i have classified the players on my table whether loose or tight. This information will allow me to steal blinds off the right people and also to make sure that any marginal  3-bet shove is being done against an opponent who is wide enough to fold.

  Unable to comment on the ante front because i have never played with them.

HAPPYNIGE4

Thanks for showing my hand !!!!!!!!!!!!1

Mariusz80

Hello guys.

Great show as always.

With short stack the key is patience and one more time patience!!!

In last SPT in Nottingham, I was down at one point to 2.5 BB and was short stacked most of the tourney and ended up winning it. You just have to be patience and pick your spots carefully (getting lucky once or twice helps as well )

On the side note, my friend from Eastbourne is just heads up in the EPT in Greece!!! Come on Zimnan, take it down. Great result anyway!!!

Regards

B16JDH

Hi guys, Excellent show.

Re short stack play:  I agree totally with patience, patience and patience however also it can be situational too depending on the tournament.  I know this is unusual however 2 years ago I was playing live at a local casino, the game was part of a league where a large cash pot was going to be played for and points were awarded for position finished during league games (1 point for all players entering and then for final table players - 2 upto 22 for the winner).  It was the final game before the final and I needed to get 2 points to be sure of a final table seat without being involved in a 33 player play off.

I folded to make the final table of 10 players ending up with one big blind but gained the points I needed.  Following the seat redraw found myself on the big blind on the first hand.  I put my card guard over my hole cards and with the cash for this league game starting at 9 players so no surprise all other 9 players posted the big blind.  The flop came 2,2,A, followed by the turn and river.  Only then did I turn over my cards and yes there they were pocket 2's.  From 4000 to 40,000 chips and back in the game, went on to finish second for a very nice cash in that game and also a certain cash on the league final table.

I know this is unusual to say the least but I see far too often players shoving with marginal hands before reaching a critical point.

AAelmoAA

Hi, guys. enjoyed the tourney tonight (obv)

the bubble tonight was sick, im not usually as nitty on the bubble but just couldnt find a spot.

on the question tonight, although i hung around with 6 and 5 bbs at times i think we have to get it in around 9 and 10. It just takes practice to get the shove/fold ranges right.

p.s unlucky to the bubble tonight going out with QQ

robyoung

hey guys great show as always, just bubbled and im gutted i didnt at least cash, but it was my 1st roller so i think reaching the ft was a good effort lol i was in to minds wether to fold the qq which knocked me out with there being a super short stack at the table, do you think it was the correct play to shove the qq like i did or should i have folded to try and at least min cash?