In play- 10BB shortie again- £20- this time on the £1/£2 table Mill Brow with DanTB10 to my left with £200! And the rest of the table on similar amounts!
OK- going great guns on the big boys table- £20 into £140 in 30 minutes.
Lost 2 buy-ins in short order so it's not for the faint hearted, but once i got the double-up I didn't look back and now I'm no longer playing ahort stack tactics!
Lol- dunno if your account has been hijacked, Paige- but if you're serious- of course. Send your address to skyopen@bskyb.com along with your request and I'll happily do it! :-)
OK- some very interesting lessons learned tonight...
It's all very well shortstacking £20 on a table full of sharks on £200+ and then spinning it up into £150, but it's no-limit and there will be a cooler and you'll lose the lot at some point.
If you're playing at your comfort level (which shortstacking suggests you're not) then it';s not so much of an issue loising so much cash, but in my case it was a bit of a blow.
So, what's the answer? Do you get the double-up and then exit? Or try and crack on and turn it into a monster stack?
Also, how many times of reloading your shortstack is permissible before you have to concede you'd be better off sticking that full amount on in the first place?
I think I did 4 buy-ins in quick succession- I had to, I lost a few races when I went all-in pre-flop. But what if I had simply stuck down £80 instead and been dne with it? My range would have tightened and there wouldn;t have been much chance of me going all-in pre.
OH BOTHER IS IT ,CHANNEL 685 , I DO FORGET, BUT I DONT FORGET YOU XXX, PHOTO OF YOU FROM SKY SANTA PLEASE , AND SIGHED LOVE RICH ORFORD , WITH A KISS PLEASE XXXX THANK YOU XXXX YOU MUST STOP BEING SO CUTE LOOKING XXXX
Was treading water on my final table with 100 BBs for ages and then all of a sudden I started playing it like I was shortstacked! Before I knew it I'd got it all-in on the flop with the nut flush draw.
Was called by a set of 2s.
Obv hit my nut flush on the turn.
Opponent obv hit his house on the river.
Lol! Game over!
All told- I can see that shortstacking is to be done with money you feel comfortable losing, by taking shots at higher levels than your bankroll realistically permits. If you stick to that principle and pick your spot, you're effectively gambling on a double or nothing strategy. If that floats your boat and, let's face it, there's not much poker being played there, then go for it.
I must say it's pretty exciting once you nurse your shortstack into a whopper, as I did manage to at one stage tongiht. but quite depressing when you then lose said whopping stack.
The plus side is that you can console yourself that you only lost 20 quid instead of what looks to everyone else like 150 quid, because you only started on the table with 20 quid.
Obviously the down side is that with 10BBs, realistically you have a max of 5 hands before you have to lump it in- and if you can't find something high-end with which to do so, then you have to settle for live-looking cards. A-2 off is not good (what sort of hand do you want to be called by?) 4-5 suited is much better, for example. And of course, everyone can afford to call you- meaning your AA gets called in 4 spots by Ace-cracking cards!
Still haven't worked out if the best strategy is to double up and then immediately leave to do it again on a different table, or to stay where you are and slowly try and claw your way to the level of the other stacks on the table.
All in all though- a useful experiment for me. Thanks to all the players and railers who joined me! :-)
And that's me for tonight! Interesting evening. Was treading water on my final table with 100 BBs and then for ages and then all of a sudden I started playing it like I was shortstacked! Before I knew it I'd got it all-in on the flop with the nut flush draw. Was called by a set of 2s. Obv hit my nut flush on the turn. Opponent obv hit his house on the river. Posted by RICHORFORD
And that's me for tonight! Interesting evening. Was treading water on my final table with 100 BBs and then for ages and then all of a sudden I started playing it like I was shortstacked! Before I knew it I'd got it all-in on the flop with the nut flush draw. Was called by a set of 2s. Obv hit my nut flush on the turn. Opponent obv hit his house on the river. Lol! Game over! All told- I can see that shortstacking is to be done with money you feel comfortable losing, by taking shots at higher levels than your bankroll permits. If you stick to that principle and pick your spot, you're effectively gambling on a double or nothing strategy. If that floats your boat and, let's face it, there's not much poker being played there, then go for it. I must say it's pretty exciting once you nurse your shortstack into a whopper, as I did manage to at one stage tongiht. but quite depressing when you then lose said whopping stack. The plus side is that you can console yourself that you only lost 20 quid instead of what looks to everyone else like 150 quid, because you only started on the table with 20 quid. Obviously the down side is that with 10BBs, realistically you have a max of 5 hands before you have to lump it in- and if you can't find something high-end with which to do so, the you have to settle for live-looking cards. A-2 off is not good (what sort of hand do you want to be called by?) 4-5 suited is much better for example. And of course, everyone can afford to call you- meaning your AA gets called in 4 spots by Ace-cracking cards! Still haven't worked out if the best strategy is to double up and then immediately leave to do it again on a different table, or to stay where you are and slowly try and claw your way to the level of the other stacks on the table. All in all though- a useful experiment for me. Thanks to all the players and railers who joined me! :-) Posted by RICHORFORD
Sounds like you had a fun night!
I agree with your sentiment that short-stacking doesn't feel like poker. There's no skill (or enjoyment) in flipping. And, long term, you don't stand to make a profit, if you're winning half the time and losing half the time.
Shortly, I'll announce the them for Week 2 of the Cash Crusade...
In Response to Re: Join James & Rich on...THE CASH CRUSADE! : Sounds like you had a fun night! I agree with your sentiment that short-stacking doesn't feel like poker. There's no skill (or enjoyment) in flipping. And, long term, you don't stand to make a profit, if you're winning half the time and losing half the time. Shortly, I'll announce the them for Week 2 of the Cash Crusade... Posted by J-Hartigan
Indeed. It reminded me a little of playing rebuy Bounty Hunters compared to deep-stack freeze-outs- or Twenty20 cricket compared to Test Series- it's not for the purists, but it's very exciting! And not everyone is in this game to grind away profits as if it's a chore.
A lot of people play it for entertainment only.
So sometimes it's fun to let your hair down and go for the spin-up. But you have to make sure it's money you're comfortable with losing in the first place.
If you're serious about carving out a regular side income from the game though- playing with the maximum on the table is your best bet, giving you the maximum firepower for betting and maximising your return when you hit your hand. That and multi-tabling + effective bankroll management.
May I suggest multi-tabling as either our next investigation or a future one, James? I'd be interested to discover where my tipping point is i.e. how many tables I can open up before it becomes unprofitable because i'm not playing them effectively.
I reckon I could handle 4, if I'm not required to do any chatting(!) Any less might not be maximising my returns and minimising my variance. Any more and I might start spreading myself too thinly and not playing each table as effectively and profitably.
What about everyone else? Thoughts on multi-tabling?
In Response to Re: Join James & Rich on...THE CASH CRUSADE! : Indeed. It reminded me a little of playing rebuy Bounty Hunters compared to deep-stack freeze-outs- or Twenty20 cricket compared to Test Series- it's not for the purists, but it's very exciting! And not everyone is in this game to grind away profits as if it's a chore. A lot of people play it for entertainment only. So sometimes it's fun to let your hair down and go for the spin-up. But you have to make sure it's money you're comfortable with losing in the first place. If you're serious about carving out a regular side income from the game though- playing with the maximum on the table is your best bet, giving you the maximum firepower for betting and maximising your return when you hit your hand. That and multi-tabling + effective bankroll management. May I suggest multi-tabling as either our next investigation or a future one, James? I'd be interested to discover where my tipping point is i.e. how many tables I can open up before it becomes unprofitable because i'm not playing them effectively. I reckon I could handle 4, if I'm not required to do any chatting(!) Any less might not be maximising my returns and minimising my variance. Any more and I might start spreading myself too thinly and not playing each table as effectively and profitably. What about everyone else? Thoughts on multi-tabling? Posted by RICHORFORD
1?
Only joshing Rich, your game seems to be improving quite nicely.
Is it better to play one table at a higher limit, or several tables at a slightly lower limit? How many tables can you comfortably play, and still make optimal decisions? Does multi-tabling lead to a more basic (TAG) style of play?
On Monday (12th), I'll sit down at one of the 25p/50p Master Cash tables with £100. Later in the evening, I'll try spreading £100 across FIVE 10p/20p tables (buying-in for £20 at each table). Afterwards, I'll report back on my experiences and assess the impact on my bankroll!
MULTI-TABLING Is it better to play one table at a higher limit, or several tables at a slightly lower limit? How many tables can you comfortably play, and still make optimal decisions? Does multi-tabling lead to a more basic (TAG) style of play? On Monday, I'll sit down at one of the 25p/50p Master Cash tables with £100. Later in the evening, I'll try spreading £100 across FIVE 10p/20p tables (buying-in for £20 at each table). Afterwards, I'll report back on my experiences and assess the impact on my bankroll! Posted by J-Hartigan
Sounds like you have money to burn!
Research does cost money, but you learn from it in the long run and hence become stronger and wiser and hence a good poker player, but there will always be that LUCKBOX who will knock you off your pedestal!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Good luck James and Richard! I have had some terrible beats theses last two weeks in the main MTTs and Mini MTTS!
Comments
I'll report back...
Lost 2 buy-ins in short order so it's not for the faint hearted, but once i got the double-up I didn't look back and now I'm no longer playing ahort stack tactics!
It's all very well shortstacking £20 on a table full of sharks on £200+ and then spinning it up into £150, but it's no-limit and there will be a cooler and you'll lose the lot at some point.
If you're playing at your comfort level (which shortstacking suggests you're not) then it';s not so much of an issue loising so much cash, but in my case it was a bit of a blow.
So, what's the answer? Do you get the double-up and then exit? Or try and crack on and turn it into a monster stack?
Also, how many times of reloading your shortstack is permissible before you have to concede you'd be better off sticking that full amount on in the first place?
I think I did 4 buy-ins in quick succession- I had to, I lost a few races when I went all-in pre-flop. But what if I had simply stuck down £80 instead and been dne with it? My range would have tightened and there wouldn;t have been much chance of me going all-in pre.
Thoughts?
It would appear you just gambling and spinning up, the problem is there has to be a stop button otherwise you just keep going until you WILL go bust
It like when do you press collect when you gambling on a fruit machine !!!!
Spin up x3 then start again I would say
May aswell play the free money tables
Only joshing Rich, your game seems to be improving quite nicely.
Research does cost money, but you learn from it in the long run and hence become stronger and wiser and hence a good poker player, but there will always be that LUCKBOX who will knock you off your pedestal!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Good luck James and Richard!
I have had some terrible beats theses last two weeks in the main MTTs and Mini MTTS!