Look out for loads of surprise "freebie" giveaways to Santas Grotto, on the 865 Shows, the Community, on the Tables, & from Sky Santa, Sky Elf, & the PTP-ers.
In fact - I will offer ONE FREE ENTRY to the Santa's Grotto seat for the best balanced Post on this Thread. Not sucky wucky, not necessarily "on message", just "well-balanced". Please try to remember the key - Sky Poker is trying to please, & be fair, to all it's Clients. Big & small, Cash, MTT, SNG, the lot.
In Response to Re: Santas Grotto Offer! : What happens if your BB gets raised and you don't see a flop? Posted by 67Bhoys
what i done, i got a walk on BB, folded SB as it was raised, Raised button and won, raised next hand and won. Got a walk on BB again Guy limps me SB and im in profit anyways so i limp along BB checked. DONE. i see what hands i got fold em all and stand before BB hits.
In Response to Re: Santas Grotto Offer! : It's about time cash started getting more coverage!! Every single play the presenter night for the past 18 months has been tournaments &/or sit n gos. I can think of loads MTT based leagues run by presenters (lasting a month each), and only 1 cash competition, which was based on Omaha, not NLHE. There's the MTT jackpot & UKOPS. There's 2 tourny shows as opposed to 1 cash, and for a long time, they were all tournament shows. ------------------- The cash tables are where the best players play and make their money/living. If you wanna improve as a poker player, then improving at cash is the way to do it. TK always says 865 aim to entertain & educate . Watching people play <20 big blind stacks while the presenters have a laugh can be entertaining but it doesn't teach us much. Watch 1 hour of the Saturday night shows with Sim/Redmond and you'll learn more than watching a whole Thursday night BH show. Posted by DOHHHHHHH
I was never questioning the lack off MTT coverage. I agree that cash should get more coverage as this is the most popular format on sky, and with guests like Sim and Redmond players could learn ALOT, which then leads to people getting more from their money and enjoying the game more, and possibly even making money. But, oviously people get bored just watching cash after cash hand, which is why the tournaments shows are very good, esepically with guests like Luke Schwartz! some people prefer to watch knowing there will be an eventual winner. My point was that alot of STT players are leaving/left (playing elsewhere) , and its hard to get a few £22 + games going now. It seems very little is done to promote STT games, even though like i said in my previous post, Tv's most watched poker show Late night poker is afterall a STT format. Every1 loves watching that right ?
To the how can i put it kindly, ... misunderstood, people who think i'm moaning about spending a few quid on getting into the freeroll, you have completely missed the point. My point is that all the offers and promotions lately seem to be cash cash cash. Obviously there is tourneament shows and the tournament jackpot etc.. i just felt a little more could be done to balance it out, and promote STT's , and get people involved in all aspects of poker. Don't get me wrong, i enjoy playing the odd cash session myself. Just would be a shame if i had to open accounts elsewhere to play STTs.
Observation. The small stakes players like myself might want to be careful over table selection, because a lot of these players aren't going to just limp to your big blind as might happen at micro stakes. You might have to play a bit.
I got raised out on the first orbit, got a new player posting a blind mid orbit on my BB second time round so got my limped pot, then picked up KK in the cut-off playing my 'free' hands from the rest of the orbit and took down the blinds. Day one done for 30p, happy with that.
In Response to Re: Santas Grotto Offer! : I was never questioning the lack off MTT coverage. I agree that cash should get more coverage as this is the most popular format on sky, and with guests like Sim and Redmond players could learn ALOT, which then leads to people getting more from their money and enjoying the game more, and possibly even making money. But, oviously people get bored just watching cash after cash hand, which is why the tournaments shows are very good, esepically with guests like Luke Schwartz! some people prefer to watch knowing there will be an eventual winner. My point was that alot of STT players are leaving/left (playing elsewhere) , and its hard to get a few £22 + games going now. It seems very little is done to promote STT games, even though like i said in my previous post, Tv's most watched poker show Late night poker is afterall a STT format. Every1 loves watching that right ? To the how can i put it kindly, ... misunderstood, people who think i'm moaning about spending a few quid on getting into the freeroll, you have completely missed the point. My point is that all the offers and promotions lately seem to be cash cash cash. Obviously there is tourneament shows and the tournament jackpot etc.. i just felt a little more could be done to balance it out, and promote STT's , and get people involved in all aspects of poker. Don't get me wrong, i enjoy playing the odd cash session myself. Just would be a shame if i had to open accounts elsewhere to play STTs. Posted by 1267
3 fair points. But you could have made these points without any criticism of the recent emphasis on cash poker.......
More can be done to promote sng's, but alongside cash based promotions, not instead of.
In Response to Re: Santas Grotto Offer! : 3 fair points. But you could have made these points without any criticism of the recent emphasis on cash poker....... More can be done to promote sng's, but alongside cash based promotions, not instead of. What would you suggest they do???? Posted by DOHHHHHHH
yes, alongside the cash promotions of course.
Not sure what i'd do to be honest . People get paid to come up with things like this dont they ? lol A few other players were saying Sky did double points for a week or weekend on STT's, this perhaps would increase activity. Maybe an STT show.
Tikay seemed to "laugh off" my sky is becoming a cash site remark, but lets say the average site is 70 percent cash, 15 percent stt, 15 percent MTT (not sure on the stt , mtt ratio). Sky is probably more like 85 perent cash, 10 percent MTT, 5 percent STT.
Going off topic i know, but lets say 70 percent of premiership sides, pass the ball out, the over 30 percent split between dribbling it out, and long balls. Arsenal pass it out 85 percent of the time, Arsenal are a passing side right ?
In Response to Re: Santas Grotto Offer! : yes, alongside the cash promotions of course. Not sure what i'd do to be honest . People get paid to come up with things like this dont they ? lol A few other players were saying Sky did double points for a week or weekend on STT's, this perhaps would increase activity. Maybe an STT show. Tikay seemed to "laugh off" my sky is becoming a cash site remark, but lets say the average site is 70 percent cash, 15 percent stt, 15 percent MTT (not sure on the stt , mtt ratio). Sky is probably more like 85 perent cash, 10 percent MTT, 5 percent STT. Going off topic i know, but lets say 70 percent of premiership sides, pass the ball out, the over 30 percent split between dribbling it out, and long balls. Arsenal pass it out 85 percent of the time, Arsenal are a passing side right ? Posted by 1267
Hold up Sir - I never "laughed it off", I tried to be polite, honest, inclusive, & just state facts openly & honestly. I think you need to read ALL of my Post, & indeed Posts, on this thread. I don't mock, or "laugh off" Clients.
Morning Guys. Don't think I've ever been described as being charismatic before. Did he mean asthmatic, I wonder? Bear with me, & I'll try & answer a few of the questions. Might just wear this T-Shirt on tonight's Show, too..... Posted by Tikay10
lol
I only care about my entertainment, why would I care about everyone else - that's your job )
I think this is a great promotion it doesn't take much to get in 1 raked hand at 20nl for 5 straight days, people that are saying but i'd end up staying on longer than my one raked hand and losing x amount of my bankroll that is a personal problem.
1)it does not say you have to sit at 20nl with a full stack and get your one raked hand for 5 days so those that are saying but im afraid i will do my bankroll as i think it is poor form to play 1 hand sit with what your bankroll is comfortable with even if its only a fiver you are only there to get your one raked hand not to make a living, there are going to be a million and one people doing exactly the same
2) for the prizes that are up for grabs to win in a freeroll everyone should just be getting on with it sitting play the one hand that sees a flop and go knowing by monday you will be eligible for the freeroll and you never have to play another cash hand ever if you do not want to and you now have a chance to win a 3d tv + £200 pretty sure the £200 cash will be a 100x more than what you will lose in these 5 days while qualifying so if anything that is an incentive (£200 will be some peoples whole bankrolls and its FREE MONEY)
finally agree with Dohhh and i am not a cash player... well i play a little of everything but every promotion is usually for MTT players ie the jackpot etc etc, but as soon as a different promo comes in which is probably the simplest of promotions ever people forget this and start asking what about people who specifically play mtts come on anyone can play 20nl just to see 1 flop and get up and go it isn't going to be rocket science.
why should another promo be introduced with the same sort of thing just cause the cash guys get one that isn't right MTT players have a lot of promo's based around them and for one christmas promo not be based around mtts and people whinging about it seems pretty stupid to me.
Yet again, the old cash v tournament discussion raises its ugly head again.
Any promotion will not, and can not, satisfy everyone, whether it be a poker promotion or something in the 'real world'.
Promotional 'tournaments' will always attract the cash players to take a break from the grinding and join in. The old adage that 'cash players are the best poker players' does not necessarily equate to ALL tournaments they enter. I am obv biased towards the tournament player but do respect the cash grinding players. However, their disrespect towards the tournament players sometimes leaves alot to be desired.
As for the discussion of cash bringing the most profit in for the site, that seriously is not a good thing to say as it alienates all the MTT/STT grinders who should be made to feel as equally as possible as ALL clients on a poker website.
Other sites are widely available which offer a lot more than Sky Poker currently offer in regards to choice of Tournaments/STT's 24/7. However, not many offer the promotions Sky do or a an 'open' forum for all.
Final thought
Why is there always a 'tournament' to decide the best 'cash' players?
Firstly: Tikay where can i get that T-shirt I think this is a great promotion it doesn't take much to get in 1 raked hand at 20nl for 5 straight days, people that are saying but i'd end up staying on longer than my one raked hand and losing x amount of my bankroll that is a personal problem. 1)it does not say you have to sit at 20nl with a full stack and get your one raked hand for 5 days so those that are saying but im afraid i will do my bankroll as i think it is poor form to play 1 hand sit with what your bankroll is comfortable with even if its only a fiver you are only there to get your one raked hand not to make a living, there are going to be a million and one people doing exactly the same 2) for the prizes that are up for grabs to win in a freeroll everyone should just be getting on with it sitting play the one hand that sees a flop and go knowing by monday you will be eligible for the freeroll and you never have to play another cash hand ever if you do not want to and you now have a chance to win a 3d tv + £200 pretty sure the £200 cash will be a 100x more than what you will lose in these 5 days while qualifying so if anything that is an incentive (£200 will be some peoples whole bankrolls and its FREE MONEY ) finally agree with Dohhh and i am not a cash player... well i play a little of everything but every promotion is usually for MTT players ie the jackpot etc etc, but as soon as a different promo comes in which is probably the simplest of promotions ever people forget this and start asking what about people who specifically play mtts come on anyone can play 20nl just to see 1 flop and get up and go it isn't going to be rocket science. why should another promo be introduced with the same sort of thing just cause the cash guys get one that isn't right MTT players have a lot of promo's based around them and for one christmas promo not be based around mtts and people whinging about it seems pretty stupid to me. anyways thats my opinion flame away Posted by delaney09
No1s forgot the jackpot , its even mentioned in previous posts. Nor do i see any MTT players whinging ?
In Response to Re: Santas Grotto Offer! : No1s forgot the jackpot , its even mentioned in previous posts. Nor do i see any MTT players whinging ? Posted by 1267
both things you have said while quoting my post have not even been said so not really sure what you are trying to say
1) i didn't mention anywhere that the jackpot had been forgotten i wrote
'every promotion is usually for MTT players ie the jackpot etc etc, but as soon as a different promo comes in which is probably the simplest of promotions ever people forget'
that doesn't state at all that people specifically forget about the jackpot im clearly saying in general people forget about all the promotions that are done for MTT players not just one specific promotion
2) nor did i say mtt players were whinging if i said MTT players were whinging that would then include myself as i play more MTTs than i do cash?????
please re-read rather than replying to my post with things i haven't even said
This is not a cash table promotion, this is not an mtt promotion, this is not an stt promotion, it is a christmas promotion. Sky have run this santas sack promotion for the last 3 years i believe. In all those years the qualifying criteria was one of three ways. 1) to knock santa rudolph or some other tiny christmas character (i forget her name) out of the main event. 2) To bust one of the three players previously listed out of a cash table 3) To win a spot prize in one of many december competitions run.
I have been lucky enough to have been in all the previous promotion finals, but it was quite difficult or lucky to qualify, 1st you had to get on the santas table, then bust him out when he had £20 br on a 10p/20p cash table! yes you heard that right, the same tables that now all you need to do is see 5 flops! This is so much easier to enter now, and remember, the qualifying may be cash, but the santa grotto final is MTT! I would like to say that im normally the first to nitpick but this is a fun promotion, laid on by sky and they choose the qualifying criteria, and everyone should be thankful how it is, because they could have made it a darn sight harder! Finally id just like to add that people really need to get things into perspective, it is what it is, its meant to be fun, sky are under no obligation to run this in any particular way, indeed if at all. If you dont want to qualify this way, why not try and win one of the other fun competitions that im sure will be on offer. Today i played my first raked hand of the qualifying period and won 93p, so thats 1 down 4 to go. - happy christmas everone!
Firstly: Tikay where can i get that T-shirt I think this is a great promotion it doesn't take much to get in 1 raked hand at 20nl for 5 straight days, people that are saying but i'd end up staying on longer than my one raked hand and losing x amount of my bankroll that is a personal problem. 1)it does not say you have to sit at 20nl with a full stack and get your one raked hand for 5 days so those that are saying but im afraid i will do my bankroll as i think it is poor form to play 1 hand sit with what your bankroll is comfortable with even if its only a fiver you are only there to get your one raked hand not to make a living, there are going to be a million and one people doing exactly the same 2) for the prizes that are up for grabs to win in a freeroll everyone should just be getting on with it sitting play the one hand that sees a flop and go knowing by monday you will be eligible for the freeroll and you never have to play another cash hand ever if you do not want to and you now have a chance to win a 3d tv + £200 pretty sure the £200 cash will be a 100x more than what you will lose in these 5 days while qualifying so if anything that is an incentive (£200 will be some peoples whole bankrolls and its FREE MONEY ) finally agree with Dohhh and i am not a cash player... well i play a little of everything but every promotion is usually for MTT players ie the jackpot etc etc, but as soon as a different promo comes in which is probably the simplest of promotions ever people forget this and start asking what about people who specifically play mtts come on anyone can play 20nl just to see 1 flop and get up and go it isn't going to be rocket science. why should another promo be introduced with the same sort of thing just cause the cash guys get one that isn't right MTT players have a lot of promo's based around them and for one christmas promo not be based around mtts and people whinging about it seems pretty stupid to me. anyways thats my opinion flame away Posted by delaney09
Ok. Noones whinging about the promo not being based around MTTs ?
Plus what evidence is there to suggest people forget about the MTT promos then ? Because no1 has forgot about the Jackpot promo.
Plus no1 ever questioned that getting in the freeroll was rocket science, imo.
I'm mainly a cash game player and think that the balance that cash gets on the TV show is fair.
Cash is more skilled that the other forms, and tournies/STTs are where people tend to begin their poker journey so I think that should forum the bulk of the TV coverage. Even tho cash is by far the biggest money maker for the site, and no one can even begin to argue with that (no doubt they will tho) it is not the way that people generally get into the game. And new blood is what ALL online poker rooms strive for,
Maybe Sky could look at doing some pre-records to get a boost to the STTs/DYMs?
Peronsally with regards to this promo I think this system is probably fairer than the ones that Sky used before as a lot of the time it was basically down to luck if you were on the forum/tables at the right time.
I really don't see what all the fuss is about, seeing 5 flops in 5 days sounds like a BARGAIN to me, also it's only the 8th dec. & i'm sure there will be more promotions that will suit everyone between now & xmas
I really don't see what all the fuss is about, seeing 5 flops in 5 days sounds like a BARGAIN to me, also it's only the 8th dec. & i'm sure there will be more promotions that will suit everyone between now & xmas Posted by DTWBANDIT
+1 an easy task. Last year was more difficult, I won my seat last year playing 25/50 omaha!! which is never good for the bankroll.
I get a little tired of this cash v tournament debate.
And that is speaking as someone who does not enjoy playing cash, so I am rarely seen at the cash tables.
But as a tournament specialist, I am more focused on what Sky offers me than what it gives to cash players.
Its like constantly hearing the moan that there are too many bounty hunters. No there are not too many BHs, because they keep attracting big fields and making their guarantees.
But if someone says there are not enough deepstacks for £10/20 buyin with guaranteed prize pools, I have to agree.
But I also remember how much effort myself and other players have put in to supporting and promoting this type of tournament in the past, only for the numbers involved to dwindle away.
But looking from a serious tournament players point of view, we have to be positive. In the past year the Sky Rollers have become part of the regular schedule. And they have a great structure, but also allow more cost conscious players to satellite in.
And hopefully UKOPS will also become a permanent fixture too.
And one thing that has been clearly shown by these tournaments is that we dont have cash players and tournament players but we DO have a lot of very good poker players.
People who a year ago may have been regarded as cash specialists are regularly playing these tournaments (and often winning them !)
And they have the respect of the majority of us tournament players. Personally I love hearing of ANY regular on Sky going out and winning live tournaments etc.
Yes a while ago there were isolated incidents of a few cash players disrespecting us "donkament" players, but I hope that is in the past now.
So please, when Sky comes up with a new idea or promotion, why does anyone feel the need to be negative ?
Even if you feel a particular offer or promotion is not for you, dont knock it, because it obviously will suit many other people.
This particular one is great fun, my foray into the world of cash poker today turned into a 40 minute session and even a small profit. And I will enjoy doing the same again on at least 4 days.
Comments
Oh, I forgot to add.
Look out for loads of surprise "freebie" giveaways to Santas Grotto, on the 865 Shows, the Community, on the Tables, & from Sky Santa, Sky Elf, & the PTP-ers.
In fact - I will offer ONE FREE ENTRY to the Santa's Grotto seat for the best balanced Post on this Thread. Not sucky wucky, not necessarily "on message", just "well-balanced". Please try to remember the key - Sky Poker is trying to please, & be fair, to all it's Clients. Big & small, Cash, MTT, SNG, the lot.
Awkward shoes to wear, them.
My point was that alot of STT players are leaving/left (playing elsewhere) , and its hard to get a few £22 + games going now. It seems very little is done to promote STT games, even though like i said in my previous post, Tv's most watched poker show Late night poker is afterall a STT format. Every1 loves watching that right ?
To the how can i put it kindly, ... misunderstood, people who think i'm moaning about spending a few quid on getting into the freeroll, you have completely missed the point. My point is that all the offers and promotions lately seem to be cash cash cash. Obviously there is tourneament shows and the tournament jackpot etc.. i just felt a little more could be done to balance it out, and promote STT's , and get people involved in all aspects of poker.
Don't get me wrong, i enjoy playing the odd cash session myself. Just would be a shame if i had to open accounts elsewhere to play STTs.
I got raised out on the first orbit, got a new player posting a blind mid orbit on my BB second time round so got my limped pot, then picked up KK in the cut-off playing my 'free' hands from the rest of the orbit and took down the blinds. Day one done for 30p, happy with that.
Not sure what i'd do to be honest . People get paid to come up with things like this dont they ? lol
A few other players were saying Sky did double points for a week or weekend on STT's, this perhaps would increase activity. Maybe an STT show.
Tikay seemed to "laugh off" my sky is becoming a cash site remark, but lets say the average site is 70 percent cash, 15 percent stt, 15 percent MTT (not sure on the stt , mtt ratio).
Sky is probably more like 85 perent cash, 10 percent MTT, 5 percent STT.
Going off topic i know, but lets say 70 percent of premiership sides, pass the ball out, the over 30 percent split between dribbling it out, and long balls.
Arsenal pass it out 85 percent of the time, Arsenal are a passing side right ?
1267 - thank you. All noted, & put that way, it reads better!
Truth is, it's a bit like this......
Which then became this......
And is fast approaching this......
Not dropped a plate yet though. Have faith, believe......
Think a plate just fell off, bleurgh.
I only care about my entertainment, why would I care about everyone else - that's your job )
I think this is a great promotion it doesn't take much to get in 1 raked hand at 20nl for 5 straight days, people that are saying but i'd end up staying on longer than my one raked hand and losing x amount of my bankroll that is a personal problem.
1)it does not say you have to sit at 20nl with a full stack and get your one raked hand for 5 days so those that are saying but im afraid i will do my bankroll as i think it is poor form to play 1 hand sit with what your bankroll is comfortable with even if its only a fiver you are only there to get your one raked hand not to make a living, there are going to be a million and one people doing exactly the same
2) for the prizes that are up for grabs to win in a freeroll everyone should just be getting on with it sitting play the one hand that sees a flop and go knowing by monday you will be eligible for the freeroll and you never have to play another cash hand ever if you do not want to and you now have a chance to win a 3d tv + £200 pretty sure the £200 cash will be a 100x more than what you will lose in these 5 days while qualifying so if anything that is an incentive (£200 will be some peoples whole bankrolls and its FREE MONEY)
finally agree with Dohhh and i am not a cash player... well i play a little of everything but every promotion is usually for MTT players ie the jackpot etc etc, but as soon as a different promo comes in which is probably the simplest of promotions ever people forget this and start asking what about people who specifically play mtts come on anyone can play 20nl just to see 1 flop and get up and go it isn't going to be rocket science.
why should another promo be introduced with the same sort of thing just cause the cash guys get one that isn't right MTT players have a lot of promo's based around them and for one christmas promo not be based around mtts and people whinging about it seems pretty stupid to me.
anyways thats my opinion flame away
Nor do i see any MTT players whinging ?
1) i didn't mention anywhere that the jackpot had been forgotten i wrote
'every promotion is usually for MTT players ie the jackpot etc etc, but as soon as a different promo comes in which is probably the simplest of promotions ever people forget'
that doesn't state at all that people specifically forget about the jackpot im clearly saying in general people forget about all the promotions that are done for MTT players not just one specific promotion
2) nor did i say mtt players were whinging if i said MTT players were whinging that would then include myself as i play more MTTs than i do cash?????
please re-read rather than replying to my post with things i haven't even said
thanks
Sky have run this santas sack promotion for the last 3 years i believe. In all those years the qualifying criteria was one of three ways.
1) to knock santa rudolph or some other tiny christmas character (i forget her name) out of the main event.
2) To bust one of the three players previously listed out of a cash table
3) To win a spot prize in one of many december competitions run.
I have been lucky enough to have been in all the previous promotion finals, but it was quite difficult or lucky to qualify, 1st you had to get on the santas table, then bust him out when he had £20 br on a 10p/20p cash table! yes you heard that right, the same tables that now all you need to do is see 5 flops! This is so much easier to enter now, and remember, the qualifying may be cash, but the santa grotto final is MTT!
I would like to say that im normally the first to nitpick but this is a fun promotion, laid on by sky and they choose the qualifying criteria, and everyone should be thankful how it is, because they could have made it a darn sight harder!
Finally id just like to add that people really need to get things into perspective, it is what it is, its meant to be fun, sky are under no obligation to run this in any particular way, indeed if at all. If you dont want to qualify this way, why not try and win one of the other fun competitions that im sure will be on offer. Today i played my first raked hand of the qualifying period and won 93p, so thats 1 down 4 to go. - happy christmas everone!
In Response to Re: Santas Grotto Offer!:
Ok. Noones whinging about the promo not being based around MTTs ?Plus what evidence is there to suggest people forget about the MTT promos then ? Because no1 has forgot about the Jackpot promo.
Plus no1 ever questioned that getting in the freeroll was rocket science, imo.
Thanks
I really don't see what all the fuss is about, seeing 5 flops in 5 days sounds like a BARGAIN to me, also it's only the 8th dec. & i'm sure there will be more promotions that will suit everyone between now & xmas
And that is speaking as someone who does not enjoy playing cash, so I am rarely seen at the cash tables.
But as a tournament specialist, I am more focused on what Sky offers me than what it gives to cash players.
Its like constantly hearing the moan that there are too many bounty hunters. No there are not too many BHs, because they keep attracting big fields and making their guarantees.
But if someone says there are not enough deepstacks for £10/20 buyin with guaranteed prize pools, I have to agree.
But I also remember how much effort myself and other players have put in to supporting and promoting this type of tournament in the past, only for the numbers involved to dwindle away.
But looking from a serious tournament players point of view, we have to be positive. In the past year the Sky Rollers have become part of the regular schedule. And they have a great structure, but also allow more cost conscious players to satellite in.
And hopefully UKOPS will also become a permanent fixture too.
And one thing that has been clearly shown by these tournaments is that we dont have cash players and tournament players but we DO have a lot of very good poker players.
People who a year ago may have been regarded as cash specialists are regularly playing these tournaments (and often winning them !)
And they have the respect of the majority of us tournament players. Personally I love hearing of ANY regular on Sky going out and winning live tournaments etc.
Yes a while ago there were isolated incidents of a few cash players disrespecting us "donkament" players, but I hope that is in the past now.
So please, when Sky comes up with a new idea or promotion, why does anyone feel the need to be negative ?
Even if you feel a particular offer or promotion is not for you, dont knock it, because it obviously will suit many other people.
This particular one is great fun, my foray into the world of cash poker today turned into a 40 minute session and even a small profit. And I will enjoy doing the same again on at least 4 days.