In Response to Re: Changes - ACTION Tables : Suggest this is slightly unfair on the guys who have posted saying this isnt the best idea - in fairness out of the numerous requests for improvement changes you guys have from all parts of the community where was setting sb/bb to be the same on the list? Obviously this particular implementation is a choice and you have removed nothing and fair play for going ahead with it but I think its fair to say the greater disappointment is in the decision to implement this change over others that were more widely requested, which perhaps wasnt articulated in the earlier posts... Posted by lynx3ffect
Sir, or Madam,
They are an ADDITION, not a REPLACEMENT, so no, I don't think it's unfair on anyone.
This change over others was not requested? There are numerous changes in train (some will be announced today/tomorrow/next week) which were not requested, but it's a business, & they are looking to bring in new stuff, designed to appeal - or not - to the player-base. If demand is found to be wanting, they'll revert. There was no "demand", back in the day, for BH's, or all sorts of other stuff that is now accepted as the norm here, but they were introduced because that's the job of the business - to try & keep things fresh, different, new.
"More widely requested" improvements/changes. There have been, I would guess, & if we limit them to sensible/reasonable/practical/commercial ones, 10 or 20 things persistently requested. The upgrade just done, plus Part Two of it, which is very early in the New Year, will address over 90% of those requests.
It's a moving target, but the "catch-up" is about complete, or will be by early in the New Year, but even then, changes, tweaks, improvements, additions, etc, will continue forever.
In truth, I think the Site has made extraordinary progress in the last 12 months - more so than in the first 4 years, in my personal opinion, the Download was a big step in that, as seen from the high reliability rate now - the unscheduled outages are almost a thing of the past, & the site reliability & stability is as good as any Site. That was not always the case.
Hopefully, the loyal playerbase, yourself included, will enjoy the majority, if not all, of the changes. That's all they can hope for.
In Response to Re: Changes - ACTION Tables : Sir, or Madam, They are an ADDITION, not a REPLACEMENT, so no, I don't think it's unfair on anyone. This change over others was not requested? There are numerous changes in train (some will be announced today/tomorrow/next week) which were not requested, but it's a business, & they are looking to bring in new stuff, designed to appeal - or not - to the player-base. If demand is found to be wanting, they'll revert. There was no "demand", back in the day, for BH's, or all sorts of other stuff that is now accepted as the norm here, but they were introduced because that's the job of the business - to try & keep things fresh, different, new. "More widely requested" improvements/changes. There have been, I would guess, & if we limit them to sensible/reasonable/practical/commercial ones, 10 or 20 things persistently requested. The upgrade just done, plus Part Two of it, which is very early in the New Year, will address over 90% of those requests. It's a moving target, but the "catch-up" is about complete, or will be by early in the New Year, but even then, changes, tweaks, improvements, additions, etc, will continue forever. In truth, I think the Site has made extraordinary progress in the last 12 months - more so than in the first 4 years, in my personal opinion, the Download was a big step in that, as seen from the high reliability rate now - the unscheduled outages are almost a thing of the past, & the site reliability & stability is as good as any Site. That was not always the case. Hopefully, the loyal playerbase, yourself included, will enjoy the majority, if not all, of the changes. That's all they can hope for. Posted by Tikay10
Serious point here tikay, You are giving more choice on one thread and removing a choice on another thread, My concern would be that skypoker can manipulate the the games to suit rake.
more choice is more choice, removing one choice and installing another doesnt add up to more choice in my book.
In Response to Re: Changes - ACTION Tables : Ignoring the " well thought out as usual " sarcasm, the "Action Tables" are an alternative, for those who WANT to play them. The existing, regular, Tables, will be retained, & the Deep Stack Tables will be enhanced. Nobody is forced, or compelled, to play the Action Tables, though I'm sure you will have noted how busy they were yesterday. Posted by Tikay10
Ok we the sky players thank Sky for allowing us to pay more rake. It is exceptionally kind of them.
Could we also have an option where when we top up we just pay Rupert extra money directly? That'd be really kind and we wouldn't HAVE TO DO IT but could if we wanted to.....
In what way do you think you are providing a service to the player by producing a format of the game which is totally moronic? HOW DOES THIS EVEN SLIGHTLY BENEFIT US?
Calling them action is complete tosh, tables with antes would create action, 3 blinds would create action, free money in the middle would create action. Naming the table ACTION does not in itself create action.
People may have played them yesterday after they were opened for the novelty factor, it doesn't detract from the fact that they are a bad idea.
In Response to Re: Changes - ACTION Tables : Serious point here tikay, You are giving more choice on one thread and removing a choice on another thread, My concern would be that skypoker can manipulate the the games to suit rake. more choice is more choice, removing one choice and installing another doesnt add up to more choice in my book. Posted by NODEAL
It COULD maximise the rake in various ways if it wished, & our Clients COULD go elsewhere if they did not like it - they are the checks & balances built into the free market, & supply & demand. That is the absolute basis for everything done - players have a choice of many Online Sites, so we need to try that itsy-bitsy bit harder.
I'm really not sure how "more choice" can ever be a bad thing, certainly in a successful business, one which is bucking the industry trend big time, as Sky Poker is, and has done for some time now.
In almost every case of new Product at Sky Poker, it is an ADDITION, not a replacement. FIXED LIMIT, of course, is an exception, but the uptake on FL was so close to zero that it was off (below) the scale, so that hardly counts as less choice.
In Response to Re: Changes - ACTION Tables : Ok we the sky players thank Sky for allowing us to pay more rake. It is exceptionally kind of them. Could we also have an option where when we top up we just pay Rupert extra money directly? That'd be really kind and we wouldn't HAVE TO DO IT but could if we wanted to..... In what way do you think you are providing a service to the player by producing a format of the game which is totally moronic? HOW DOES THIS EVEN SLIGHTLY BENEFIT US? Calling them action is complete tosh, tables with antes would create action, 3 blinds would create action, free money in the middle would create action. Naming the table ACTION does not in itself create action. People may have played them yesterday after they were opened for the novelty factor, it doesn't detract from the fact that they are a bad idea. Posted by beaneh
Once again, I'm not quite sure why we need to descend into such dripping sarcasm Andrew, could we not debate this in a more constructive manner? I don't do rude or sarcasm to you, or other Clients, it'd be kinda nice if that were reciprocated.
Whether they are a bad idea is wholly subjective, they are "bad" in your opinion, which is abso fine.
If you prefer not to play the "Action Tables", that is your perfect right. It's Sky Poker's perfect right to offer them though.
If we could also avoid the vitriol, please, ("moronic format" is not the sort of expression we want here), it'd be much appreciated. I, we, are always happy to have a debate on these matters, but it does not need to descend to that level. Thanks.
Players will play them if they wish, or ignore them if they wish. That's their choice.
I have the option to take a hammer and thrash away at my genetalia. I do not do this because it's not good for me.
SUBJECTIVE?
O Rly
please explain which SKY CUSTOMERS benefit from this new addition. We know that Sky themseleves benefit, but i'd love to see who you think you are truly benefiting. I can name a few players who will benefit from this but on the whole the player pool will not be benefiting.
So we have
SKY BENEFIT
and
CUSTOMERS ARE TOLD THEY GET SOMETHING NEW, HOW LUCKY THE ARE AND THEY GET WAT....
You are looking from the 'im paid by sky and so I give their opinions' and i'm looking from the 'players viewpoint'. my viewpoint is not a selfish one based specifically on what I want, but one that whenever I post with regards to changes/suggestions/feedback or when I spend hours talking to Adam about upcoming changes and changes that are desperately required that will benefit everyone sometimes detrimentally to me personally.
edit
Tikay I could easily discuss this with you on blonde because there a discussion can take place, when you have you're SP hat on you have to say what you have to say and that does not lead to fair or accurate discussion just advertising/marketing propoganda.
Is there somewhere on the forums where we can suggest software changes? The "Action Tables" came out of left field and would be preferable in the future if the player base had a say on potential changes. Posted by simuk
there is a whole subforum you complete and utter fish, it just isn't used for actual changes ldo.
In Response to Re: Changes - ACTION Tables : It COULD maximise the rake in various ways if it wished, & our Clients COULD go elsewhere if they did not like it - they are the checks & balances built into the free market, & supply & demand. That is the absolute basis for everything done - players have a choice of many Online Sites, so we need to try that itsy-bitsy bit harder. I'm really not sure how "more choice" can ever be a bad thing, certainly in a successful business, one which is bucking the industry trend big time, as Sky Poker is, and has done for some time now. In almost every case of new Product at Sky Poker, it is an ADDITION, not a replacement. FIXED LIMIT, of course, is an exception, but the uptake on FL was so close to zero that it was off (below) the scale, so that hardly counts as less choice. Posted by Tikay10
Yeah I know we can go elsewhere, I used to play on here a lot more than I do now.
Tell me, why does skypoker have 100/200 tables an 50/100 when no one plays them, going by skypoker logic they should disappear.
I have the option to take a hammer and thrash away at my genetalia. I do not do this because it's not good for me. SUBJECTIVE? O Rly please explain which SKY CUSTOMERS benefit from this new addition. We know that Sky themseleves benefit, but i'd love to see who you think you are truly benefiting. I can name a few players who will benefit from this but on the whole the player pool will not be benefiting. So we have SKY BENEFIT and CUSTOMERS ARE TOLD THEY GET SOMETHING NEW, HOW LUCKY THE ARE AND THEY GET WAT.... You are looking from the 'im paid by sky and so I give their opinions' and i'm looking from the 'players viewpoint'. my viewpoint is not a selfish one based specifically on what I want, but one that whenever I post with regards to changes/suggestions/feedback or when I spend hours talking to Adam about upcoming changes and changes that are desperately required that will benefit everyone sometimes detrimentally to me personally. edit Tikay I could easily discuss this with you on blonde because there a discussion can take place, when you have you're SP hat on you have to say what you have to say and that does not lead to fair or accurate discussion just advertising/marketing propoganda. Posted by beaneh
It's something new, & does not replace anything. Players have the choice, use them, or don't. There's not much to add to that. The uptake on them yesterday was much greater than anticipated, & again today, when the midday "snapshot" was taken.
I use Tescos a lot, but I don't like their new line in baked beans, so I skip past the stuff & buy my usual brand. It does not cause me to get upset, it's a choice I can make, & others can make their own choice.
We get oodles of complaints that we have too many BH's, or that rebuys are raked. Have you seen the numbers on the Saturday night BH Rebuy? 90% GREATER than the previous NLH Freezeout! Not everyone thinks alike.
Your feedback, like everyone else's, is appreciated, but by definition, not all feedback can be used, as it varies from player to player.
I have no intention of debating it on blonde, it has nothing to do with blonde, it is a Sky Poker matter.
In Response to Re: Changes - ACTION Tables : It's something new, & does not replace anything. Players have the choice, use them, or don't. There's not much to add to that. The uptake on them yesterday was much greater than anticipated, & again today, when the midday "snapshot" was taken. I use Tescos a lot, but I don't like their new line in baked beans, so I skip past the stuff & buy my usual brand. It does not cause me to get upset, it's a choice I can make, & others can make their own choice. We get oodles of complaints that we have too many BH's, or that rebuys are raked. Have you seen the numbers on the Saturday night BH Rebuy? 90% GREATER than the previous NLH Freezeout! Not everyone thinks alike. Your feedback, like everyone else's, is appreciated, but by definition, not all feedback can be used, as it varies from player to player. I have no intention of debating it on blonde, it has nothing to do with blonde, it is a Sky Poker matter. Posted by Tikay10
Lol yeah, And as you so charmingly put it... We can go elsewhere, Glad you dont work for me
In Response to Re: Changes - ACTION Tables : Lol yeah, And as you so charmingly put it... We can go elsewhere, Glad you dont work for me Posted by NODEAL
Think you need to read my Post again, I said no such thing. I'm happy to communicate the changes, & discuss them, as long as it's reasoned debate, but please don't twist my words, & suggest I said things which I did not.
Ultimately, any business worth it's salt knows that it's customers have a choice, so tries to offer as much choice as possible. That pleases as many as the clientele as possible, & helps to earn revenue for the business - which is the sole purpose for which it exists.
I'll debate this as long as anyone wishes, but i'm not going to engage if it gets to lobbing insults about, I'm sorry.
I think these tables are bad for the games too. Regulars will never start these tables and once the novelty factor wares off, these games will die above 100nl. It is clear that they have been created to increase rake. But sky is a business and i have no right to object, I can take my custom elsewhere.
Also it doesn't matter how much choice there is; there is only ever a certain amount of liquidity. So If you add 1 thing, it will only take money from one part of the site and move it to another. So new changes DO affect other games, choice is irrelevant.
In Response to Re: Changes - ACTION Tables : It's something new, & does not replace anything. Players have the choice, use them, or don't. There's not much to add to that. The uptake on them yesterday was much greater than anticipated, & again today, when the midday "snapshot" was taken. I use Tescos a lot, but I don't like their new line in baked beans, so I skip past the stuff & buy my usual brand. It does not cause me to get upset, it's a choice I can make, & others can make their own choice. We get oodles of complaints that we have too many BH's, or that rebuys are raked. Have you seen the numbers on the Saturday night BH Rebuy? 90% GREATER than the previous NLH Freezeout! Not everyone thinks alike. Your feedback, like everyone else's, is appreciated, but by definition, not all feedback can be used, as it varies from player to player. I have no intention of debating it on blonde, it has nothing to do with blonde, it is a Sky Poker matter. Posted by Tikay10
I mention blonde because YOU ASKED TO DEBATE
then you post the same repetitve rubbish about how choice is good, how we can gtfo if we don't like it.
YOU ARE NOT DISCUSSING
YOU ARE GIVING NO VALID ARGUMENTS AS TO HOW THIS BENEFITS THE PLAYERS
YOU ARE NOT DISCUSSING I REPEAT NOT DISCUSSING
To discuss would be to say
This has been implemented for this this and this reason, look here are how it benefits THE SKY PLAYER POOL IN GENERAL (I DON'T GIVE A FLYING FECCK ABOUT IT'S DIRECT INFLUENCE ON ME, STUPIDLY ENOUGH I BELIEVE THIS TO BE GOOD FOR ME SO IT IS COUNTER INTUITIVE THAT I AM COMPLANING)
HOWEVER AS ALWAYS I AM POSTING WITH THE INTENTION OF GETTING THE BEST FOR ALL PLAYERS IN THE PLAYER POOL AND NOT JUST MYSELF
If I was to be posting on behalf of sky I would say this is an excellent idea to marginally increase the rake whilst doing relatively little. I would find it hard to argue in favour for the player without resorting to moronic repetition as you have THAT IS BECAUSE IT IS NOT GOOD FOR THE PLAYER.
Your continued repetition and lack of actual reasnoning just highlights the lack of benefit to the player pool.
You will ofcourse just say that my tone is not correct and that I should be all happy go lucky and tell you all well done for this. OFCOURSE THAT WOULD BE DUMB SO I WONT
My tone may not get me as far as a brown noser but i'm utterly fed up of being told the opposite of what is true time and time again.
It beggars belief the higher level management of MANY poker institutions.
I will agree that Beaneh is one of the few regs on thsi site who could play on the action tables and it would be MORE profitable for him than on regular tables.
For the average reg these will just be a way to lose money quicker.
For recreational/casual players I can't see much difference. They may be better for them to play than on a normal table as the action tables will probably hvae fewer regs on.
Also it doesn't matter how much choice there is; there is only ever a certain amount of liquidity. So If you add 1 thing, it will only take money from one part of the site and move it to another. So new changes DO affect other games, choice is irrelevant. Posted by BrownnDog
Very good point !!
Being a selfish poker player obviously you want players to spew on Regular tables and not elsewhere )
Lets face it, the action tables will attract the more "I want to gamble/spin" than play some poker therefore
taking the spew away from the regular tables.
I have only played for an hour on an action table - nl10 and it was very fast !
Comments
They are an ADDITION, not a REPLACEMENT, so no, I don't think it's unfair on anyone.
This change over others was not requested? There are numerous changes in train (some will be announced today/tomorrow/next week) which were not requested, but it's a business, & they are looking to bring in new stuff, designed to appeal - or not - to the player-base. If demand is found to be wanting, they'll revert. There was no "demand", back in the day, for BH's, or all sorts of other stuff that is now accepted as the norm here, but they were introduced because that's the job of the business - to try & keep things fresh, different, new.
"More widely requested" improvements/changes. There have been, I would guess, & if we limit them to sensible/reasonable/practical/commercial ones, 10 or 20 things persistently requested. The upgrade just done, plus Part Two of it, which is very early in the New Year, will address over 90% of those requests.
It's a moving target, but the "catch-up" is about complete, or will be by early in the New Year, but even then, changes, tweaks, improvements, additions, etc, will continue forever.
In truth, I think the Site has made extraordinary progress in the last 12 months - more so than in the first 4 years, in my personal opinion, the Download was a big step in that, as seen from the high reliability rate now - the unscheduled outages are almost a thing of the past, & the site reliability & stability is as good as any Site. That was not always the case.
Hopefully, the loyal playerbase, yourself included, will enjoy the majority, if not all, of the changes. That's all they can hope for.
more choice is more choice, removing one choice and installing another doesnt add up to more choice in my book.
I'm really not sure how "more choice" can ever be a bad thing, certainly in a successful business, one which is bucking the industry trend big time, as Sky Poker is, and has done for some time now.
In almost every case of new Product at Sky Poker, it is an ADDITION, not a replacement. FIXED LIMIT, of course, is an exception, but the uptake on FL was so close to zero that it was off (below) the scale, so that hardly counts as less choice.
Whether they are a bad idea is wholly subjective, they are "bad" in your opinion, which is abso fine.
If you prefer not to play the "Action Tables", that is your perfect right. It's Sky Poker's perfect right to offer them though.
If we could also avoid the vitriol, please, ("moronic format" is not the sort of expression we want here), it'd be much appreciated. I, we, are always happy to have a debate on these matters, but it does not need to descend to that level. Thanks.
Players will play them if they wish, or ignore them if they wish. That's their choice.
Tikay I could easily discuss this with you on blonde because there a discussion can take place, when you have you're SP hat on you have to say what you have to say and that does not lead to fair or accurate discussion just advertising/marketing propoganda.
Tell me, why does skypoker have 100/200 tables an 50/100 when no one plays them, going by skypoker logic they should disappear.
I use Tescos a lot, but I don't like their new line in baked beans, so I skip past the stuff & buy my usual brand. It does not cause me to get upset, it's a choice I can make, & others can make their own choice.
We get oodles of complaints that we have too many BH's, or that rebuys are raked. Have you seen the numbers on the Saturday night BH Rebuy? 90% GREATER than the previous NLH Freezeout! Not everyone thinks alike.
Your feedback, like everyone else's, is appreciated, but by definition, not all feedback can be used, as it varies from player to player.
I have no intention of debating it on blonde, it has nothing to do with blonde, it is a Sky Poker matter.
Ultimately, any business worth it's salt knows that it's customers have a choice, so tries to offer as much choice as possible. That pleases as many as the clientele as possible, & helps to earn revenue for the business - which is the sole purpose for which it exists.
I'll debate this as long as anyone wishes, but i'm not going to engage if it gets to lobbing insults about, I'm sorry.
I think these tables are bad for the games too. Regulars will never start these tables and once the novelty factor wares off, these games will die above 100nl. It is clear that they have been created to increase rake. But sky is a business and i have no right to object, I can take my custom elsewhere.
Also it doesn't matter how much choice there is; there is only ever a certain amount of liquidity. So If you add 1 thing, it will only take money from one part of the site and move it to another. So new changes DO affect other games, choice is irrelevant.
I'll post something similar in Community Help & Advice to see if it's just me struggling to do this...