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Can I fold a set of queens here?

AerionzAerionz Member Posts: 79
edited December 2020 in Poker Chat
PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
timesup13Small blind£0.25£0.25£44.12
lolufoldBig blind£0.50£0.75£97.01
Your hole cards
  • Q
  • Q
NitrogenRaise£1.50£2.25£48.50
arthur1965Fold
AerionzCall£1.50£3.75£64.34
CIGB0CK69Fold
timesup13Fold
lolufoldFold
Flop
  • 9
  • Q
  • A
NitrogenCheck
AerionzBet£1.88£5.63£62.46
NitrogenCall£1.88£7.51£46.62
Turn
  • K
NitrogenCheck
AerionzBet£5.63£13.14£56.83
NitrogenRaise£14.76£27.90£31.86
AerionzCall£9.13£37.03£47.70
River
  • 3
NitrogenAll-in£31.86£68.89£0.00
AerionzCall£31.86£100.75£15.84
NitrogenShow
  • 10
  • J
AerionzShow
  • Q
  • Q
NitrogenWinStraight to the Ace£98.95£98.95
I think up to the river, I played it fine. I could reraise preflop but decided to call.

The river is interesting. I sighed to myself, because I knew I was probably beat and he had either jack ten or a set of kings or aces. I called because there are some value hands I could possibly beat (set of 9's, AK). Not sure if he has any bluffs when he takes this line.

What would you do here?

Comments

  • NitrogenNitrogen Member Posts: 59
    edited December 2020
    3 bet QQ.

    You left AA and KK in my range so you can fold maybe, but 3 bet QQ, you are asking to be run over.
  • bev60bev60 Member Posts: 33
    3 bet pre or raise flop.

    Reducing the spr increases the number of hands you can get full value from.



  • AerionzAerionz Member Posts: 79
    edited December 2020
    Nitrogen said:

    3 bet QQ.

    You left AA and KK in my range so you can fold maybe, but 3 bet QQ, you are asking to be run over.

    Yeah I usually 3bet, but I don't get the logic. If you have stronger hands in your range, that prevents you being run over.

    The more I look at it, QQ should be an easy fold on the river. You don't have a bluff range when you take this line and I lose to more value hands than I beat. Just curious if you play this face up usually and does it work against most opponents?
  • AerionzAerionz Member Posts: 79
    bev60 said:

    3 bet pre or raise flop.

    Reducing the spr increases the number of hands you can get full value from.



    Thanks for the advice. By the way, when we were playing 1 quid heads up sit and gos the other day, how come you kept rematching me and then once you lost, you immediately declined a rematch?
  • craigcu12craigcu12 Member Posts: 3,699
    edited December 2020
    3bet pre is a must if he has AA or KK good for him your aim should be to extract maximum value from worse combos like JJ and TT as well as getting as much value from as possible from combos like AK and AQ when they miss. you are highly likely to lose most your chips to AA or KK even when calling because you most certainly not folding post flop aggression.

    As played you have to call, his range has got just 7 possibly 10 better combos all he needs is 3 weaker combos and your call is break even, he can play the odd combo of AK like this also he can slow play 99 or AQ and then he has bluffs.

    If you are gonna fold QQ in that spot then I can bluff raise any Jx combo in my range in fact I could bluff anything because you gonna fold almost your entire range, as JTs is the only hand you call.
  • NitrogenNitrogen Member Posts: 59
    edited December 2020
    Aerionz said:


    Yeah I usually 3bet, but I don't get the logic. If you have stronger hands in your range, that prevents you being run over.

    The more I look at it, QQ should be an easy fold on the river. You don't have a bluff range when you take this line and I lose to more value hands than I beat. Just curious if you play this face up usually and does it work against most opponents?

    You weaken your 3 bet range which makes it easier to play against and you lose value from your strong hands. You don't strengthen your calling range much and QQ has to play against the part of my range that folds to 3 bet which is where it's going to run into some nasty spots.

    I do have bluffs there (I lead the flop with some flush draws and 3 barrel when the board gets that scary versus someone I perceive as tight) and that's why you get paid off when you hit because you have bluffs.

    On a board that scary people don't go for thin value so the risk of check/check is too high w/ the nuts and a c/r is getting folded to so often I suspect the shove is most profitable - maybe a smaller bet gets called more often but I don't know if enough to make it better.

    And yes, I get called people don't like folding, but totally fine when they do assuming you have bluffs.

    (fwiw a lot of what you write suggests you attach too much significance to the outcome of individual hands - they really don't matter)
  • AerionzAerionz Member Posts: 79
    edited December 2020
    craigcu12 said:

    3bet pre is a must if he has AA or KK good for him your aim should be to extract maximum value from worse combos like JJ and TT as well as getting as much value from as possible from combos like AK and AQ when they miss. you are highly likely to lose most your chips to AA or KK even when calling because you most certainly not folding post flop aggression.

    As played you have to call, his range has got just 7 possibly 10 better combos all he needs is 3 weaker combos and your call is break even, he can play the odd combo of AK like this also he can slow play 99 or AQ and then he has bluffs.

    If you are gonna fold QQ in that spot then I can bluff raise any Jx combo in my range in fact I could bluff anything because you gonna fold almost your entire range, as JTs is the only hand you call.

    Thanks for the analysis. That's why I did end up calling - there are some value hands I beat. I would have folded 2 pair for sure. QQ was just a bit too strong.
  • AerionzAerionz Member Posts: 79
    edited December 2020
    Nitrogen said:

    Aerionz said:


    Yeah I usually 3bet, but I don't get the logic. If you have stronger hands in your range, that prevents you being run over.

    The more I look at it, QQ should be an easy fold on the river. You don't have a bluff range when you take this line and I lose to more value hands than I beat. Just curious if you play this face up usually and does it work against most opponents?

    You weaken your 3 bet range which makes it easier to play against and you lose value from your strong hands. You don't strengthen your calling range much and QQ has to play against the part of my range that folds to 3 bet which is where it's going to run into some nasty spots.

    I do have bluffs there (I lead the flop with some flush draws and 3 barrel when the board gets that scary versus someone I perceive as tight) and that's why you get paid off when you hit because you have bluffs.

    On a board that scary people don't go for thin value so the risk of check/check is too high w/ the nuts and a c/r is getting folded to so often I suspect the shove is most profitable - maybe a smaller bet gets called more often but I don't know if enough to make it better.

    And yes, I get called people don't like folding, but totally fine when they do assuming you have bluffs.

    (fwiw a lot of what you write suggests you attach too much significance to the outcome of individual hands - they really don't matter)
    I don't think you have any bluffs on this board when you checkraise turn and go all in on river against an unknown. Maybe I'm wrong though. You were fortunate I had middle set because if I had any worse in this particular hand, I would have folded river.
  • NitrogenNitrogen Member Posts: 59
    We've played before - I had notes.
  • AerionzAerionz Member Posts: 79
    Nitrogen said:

    We've played before - I had notes.

    That's probably why you checkraised turn with the nuts lol.
  • craigcu12craigcu12 Member Posts: 3,699
    Aerionz said:

    craigcu12 said:

    3bet pre is a must if he has AA or KK good for him your aim should be to extract maximum value from worse combos like JJ and TT as well as getting as much value from as possible from combos like AK and AQ when they miss. you are highly likely to lose most your chips to AA or KK even when calling because you most certainly not folding post flop aggression.

    As played you have to call, his range has got just 7 possibly 10 better combos all he needs is 3 weaker combos and your call is break even, he can play the odd combo of AK like this also he can slow play 99 or AQ and then he has bluffs.

    If you are gonna fold QQ in that spot then I can bluff raise any Jx combo in my range in fact I could bluff anything because you gonna fold almost your entire range, as JTs is the only hand you call.

    Thanks for the analysis. That's why I did end up calling - there are some value hands I beat. I would have folded 2 pair for sure. QQ was just a bit too strong.
    Be careful what you say, If I myself know you are gonna fold 2 pair on this turn then I can X/R my J9 and T9 as a bluff because these block your snap calls like JT and 99 so you are gonna over fold.
  • AerionzAerionz Member Posts: 79
    craigcu12 said:

    Aerionz said:

    craigcu12 said:

    3bet pre is a must if he has AA or KK good for him your aim should be to extract maximum value from worse combos like JJ and TT as well as getting as much value from as possible from combos like AK and AQ when they miss. you are highly likely to lose most your chips to AA or KK even when calling because you most certainly not folding post flop aggression.

    As played you have to call, his range has got just 7 possibly 10 better combos all he needs is 3 weaker combos and your call is break even, he can play the odd combo of AK like this also he can slow play 99 or AQ and then he has bluffs.

    If you are gonna fold QQ in that spot then I can bluff raise any Jx combo in my range in fact I could bluff anything because you gonna fold almost your entire range, as JTs is the only hand you call.

    Thanks for the analysis. That's why I did end up calling - there are some value hands I beat. I would have folded 2 pair for sure. QQ was just a bit too strong.
    Be careful what you say, If I myself know you are gonna fold 2 pair on this turn then I can X/R my J9 and T9 as a bluff because these block your snap calls like JT and 99 so you are gonna over fold.
    Well I would start calling more instead :P
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