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Was this the right decision

karllukekarlluke Member Posts: 910
in Poker Chat
At the spt Glasgow had pocket jacks. Cards came 10 4 2 rainbow then 4 river j. Betting on every street. When he bet out on the river I reraised twice his bet. His bet 3100 mine 7000. He then turns over aces. And says he’s not calling when he sees my boat. I say he never would have revealed his hand unless he was calling. Floor ruled he didn’t call. Who do u think is right.
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  • goldnballzgoldnballz Member Posts: 2,789
    Depends what he's said? If he's turned them over & said nothing thats a fold all day long I'd say...
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  • CammykazeCammykaze Member Posts: 1,397
    edited May 2022
    If they said call and turned them over it's a call. If they did not say anything it's a fold.

    Who turned their cards over first as I read this as you did? If they are calling most I would think would use the word "call"
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  • coo1-umcoo1-um Member Posts: 2,924
    Not a live poker expert by any means but I would say I he did not say call and didn’t put the cards over the line. Then the hand is still live even if he turns his hand over.
    Probably looking for some sort of tell. Sounds a little shady play.
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  • TheEdge949TheEdge949 Member Posts: 5,133
    Seems like an angle shoot how you describe it but context is somewhat missing.
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  • hhyftrftdrhhyftrftdr Member Posts: 8,036
    karlluke said:

    At the spt Glasgow had pocket jacks. Cards came 10 4 2 rainbow then 4 river j. Betting on every street. When he bet out on the river I reraised twice his bet. His bet 3100 mine 7000. He then turns over aces. And says he’s not calling when he sees my boat. I say he never would have revealed his hand unless he was calling. Floor ruled he didn’t call. Who do u think is right.

    No verbal indication of him calling.
    No physical indication of him calling; IE moving chips over the line or flicking in a calling chip.

    So although it could be a little suss, based on the limited information presented it sounds like he's just folded and shown.

    If he was calling, he'd likely wait for you to show your hand first as you'd be obligated to.

    Think floor have to give him the benefit of the doubt, as described.
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  • karllukekarlluke Member Posts: 910
    Sorry perhaps some of the context was missing. He showed first and thought he had won. There was no verbal. He then said he didn’t see the raise. I would have thought heads up you would be watching what was going on. I just wonder what the decision would have been if he was winning. As he had over cards to the board. Would the raise been ignored and returned my chips I don’t think so. Him revealing his card first was it for me.
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  • CammykazeCammykaze Member Posts: 1,397
    edited May 2022
    karlluke said:

    Sorry perhaps some of the context was missing. He showed first and thought he had won. There was no verbal. He then said he didn’t see the raise. I would have thought heads up you would be watching what was going on. I just wonder what the decision would have been if he was winning. As he had over cards to the board. Would the raise been ignored and returned my chips I don’t think so. Him revealing his card first was it for me.

    Ah that changes things. Do you think he was angle shooting yourself?

    From typed information he might have missed the 3b on the river? I don't know.

    Going on this, the other posts it's seems like standard poker miscommunication and this is why I like to hear verbals at the table to indicate what is happening before the reveal.

    hhyftrftdr is dead on with his post. Sorry to hear you lost some potential chips here.
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  • DoooobsDoooobs Member Posts: 240
    Sounds like it coult be both an angle and the correct decision. It isn't an angle until he refuses to call, so looks like it wasn't an intentional angle. If you didn't hear anything and aren't sure what happened, I'd ask if it was a call before turning over my hand. Think he should have got a warning for his behaviour, but don't think they can do much else as described. Also think situation is partially your fault, so just take it on the chin, don't dwell on it here, move on quickly and play your A game.
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  • hhyftrftdrhhyftrftdr Member Posts: 8,036
    karlluke said:

    Sorry perhaps some of the context was missing. He showed first and thought he had won. There was no verbal. He then said he didn’t see the raise. I would have thought heads up you would be watching what was going on. I just wonder what the decision would have been if he was winning. As he had over cards to the board. Would the raise been ignored and returned my chips I don’t think so. Him revealing his card first was it for me.

    Tough one.

    If he thinks you have just called then yeah he would show first as he's obligated to and aces is basically the nuts on river if not raised so AA is good there 99% of the time assuming other player has only flatted.

    Looks like a lack of concentration all round, because although you can argue he should've been paying closer attention, you could also argue that you should've been paying closer attention to notice that he hadn't called your river raise.

    Ideally you wouldn't reveal your hand until you'd clarified if he's called the raise or open folded his hand.

    Could've been a bit of angle shooting but also quite a bit of ambiguity so can't blame the floor for taking the cautious side on this occasion.

    Would definitely be keeping an eye on villain at showdown in future hands though.
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