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"the first year of a scheme in Wales where the speed limit on urban roads was lowered to 20mph resulted in about 100 fewer people killed or seriously injured."
Isn't that wonderful?
People were whingeing & whining big time, but it only adds a minute or two to most journeys, & if it saves lives, how can it be bad?
I should maybe add, for balance, that around 25 years ago I lost my licence for speeding under the totting-up procedure.
It was the worst thing ever - or so it seemed - it was like having my legs cut off. I was given a Driver/Chauffeur by my old Boss but it's not the same thing at all.
Once my Licence was restored, I have driven well within speed limits at all times & I'm quite sure I'm a much better & safer driver thanks to that. In a way, it was one of the best things that ever happened to me.
AFAIC, the more speed limits the better if it means less deaths on the road.
Here in sunny East Sussex they haven't really introduced lower speed limits but the roads are in such attrocious condition that in many places going at walking pace is too fast.
I got banned once @Tikay10, for a week, it was about 30 years ago. I exited a roundabout onto a national speed limit road and had a car in front of me doing about 30 so I overtook it, as I was overtaking I saw flourescent jackets in the distance so, suspecting an incident, I sped up to ensure that I could complete the overtake and stop safely if necessary. Unfortunately the flourescent jackets were being worn by police officers operating a speed camera, the conversation went something like this...
'Afternoon Sir, do you know why I've stopped you?'
'No idea'
'What speed were you going?'
'About 60'
What's the speed limit?'
'National speed limit, so 60'
'No it's 30'
'No it isn't, it's 60, the 30 starts just past where you're standing'
'No it doesn't, we moved it up to the roundabout about 2 months ago'
'Oh, s**t.
I was done for 62 in a 30. It went to court and I was advised by my father (a recently retired police officer) to plead not guilty, as there was no reason for them to have changed the speed limit. I was then advised by the duty solicitor that I couldn't plead not guilty but only mitigating circumstances. I waited 4 hours for my time in court and watched the previous lad get 5 points only and not lose his licence for dangerous driving and causing an accident from which him and others were lucky to walk away.
I pled my mitigating circumstances, including the fact that if you turned left at the roundabout, as I had done, you didn't see the new speed limit sign as they had placed it right on the roundabout and, assuming you were checking for traffic from your right, you would't see it. Didn't matter.
'Mr Enut I'm fining you £170 and banning you for a week, think of it as a holiday!' A holiday! I was self employed and poor, no such thing as a holiday. I very nearly said something but held my tongue. Afterwards the usher came out to me and apologised for the magistrate's comments, which made me feel a little better, he also explained that there was no way they would let me off as they had done 170 other drivers on that stretch of road in the last couple of weeks. They also moved the 30 mph signs 100 yards down from the roundabout shortly after that too, so maybe they took my comments on board.
TLDR? Got banned once and I'm still salty about it.
"TLDR? Got banned once and I'm still salty about it."
Ha, same here, & mine was a proper bad beat too. In the end though it was probably a good thing.
Straight off the bat, drivers and bikers are simply a cash cow for both the police and local authorities. This was never about safety it was about creating a revenue stream, mainly from tourists.
IF, they were serious about reducing injuries and deaths make the use of mobile phones by pedestrians illegal and reduce the number of casualties by hundreds, and its even worse when they don headphones.
The only adds a couple of minutes to a journey stuff is rubbish. Avoiding the obvious M6 M56 A55 route from Stoke to Llanberis, the alternative is now 30 mins plus longer than it was. Believe me I drove it often enough. Now I only use the motorways and major roads which deprives local businesses of revenue.
Finally driving a modern vehicle at 20mph is bad for the vehicle and the envioronment.
As you can tell I am very anti 20mph. Yes it has validity near hospitals, schools and playgrounds etc but that aside it's just a fund raising gimmick.
Me? I'm somewhere in the middle. So (for example) I don't agree that they are "simply a cash cow". It is about safety. But it is certainly not as simple as the 20 mph fans would have you believe.
The next thing to say is that any figures relying on the actual speed limits do not hold true. Simply because people do not stick to 20 mph-any more than they do to 30 mph. What a lower speed limit does achieve is lowering average speeds.
As a rule of thumb (on the assumption the law hasn't changed) it is the amount over the speed limit that determines the fine. In most (not all) cases where doing 24 in a 20/35 mph in a 30 no penalty. Simply because most police allow a "10% +2" leeway (to avoid having to prove calibration x 2).
Fixed penalties (3 points/£100)with no option of a speed awareness course normally (not always) kick in at 31 (20) and 42 (30).
When you exceed 41 (20) and 52 (30) it will typically be 3-6 points or a ban and a bigger fine. And 12 points means a "totting" ban of 6 months. Weirdly, if you have 6 points, better getting a short ban than a further 6 points.
Most drivers know this-or at least intuitively know when speeding risks licences. So a "20" reduces speed significantly. So people are doing 20-30. Rather than 30-40.
Having said that, modern cars are not meant to be routinely driven at 20 mph. And delay does come at a cost. Extra time, extra fuel, extra running costs.
In short, I can see the argument for extending "20" zones. But definitely not to the extent of that in Wales.