3 Betting pre flop - latter stages of a tournament

Stueyh · May 2010

I was going to post a thread about my inability to go on a win tournaments from promising positions and ask your advice, when I came across another thread on here which threw up the subject of 3 betting pre flop at the latter stages of tournies when the stakes are high.

I have managed to win several MTT's on here but nowhere near as many as I'd like. I constantly find myself in the last 50 of 300 or something with about 20bb's.

I steal blinds now and then and stay alive but end up relying on winning races to really improve my chip stack, to the point where the blinds get too high for me and I need to go all in with any 2 cards.

I've just seen the subject of 3 betting pre flop at this stage on another theread, to steal not only blinds but someone’s raise also.

I do occasionally do this previously but I'll be honest it's a rare play for me and is only usually done with a top, top hand (ie AA, AK, KK etc).

Do you think it needs to be done more often? Used well, I could see this making a big difference to keeping my stack topped up rather than just stealing blinds once every time the dealer chip comes round.

Any advice on when best to do this type of move:

- short stack / deepstack
- position on the table
- opponents chips stack
- when people have 2x, 3x, 4x raised before me
- Reasonable hands to three bet with?

Used well, I could see it becoming a really good play to add to my game. Used wrongly, it could leave me up poo creak without a paddle.

Or do you just think it's not important and you need a bit of luck racing to win tournies? In general I am cashing but not winning (I NEED SOME GLORY - HELP ME), so any advice on tactics to improve this also welcome.

Cheers Stu

cottlad · May 2010

You can 3bet with any 2 cards when things add up......
3bet shoving 10-15bb's works well against looser openers with stacks 12-30bb's
No set rule for yr hand strength. You can 3bet shove 12bb's against certain players with 72o with the knowledge that even if they call with AK you still have very good equity.

The main thing is not to let yourself get below 12bb's +/- a little dependant on stage of mtt. I'd much rather 3bet shove 64o against the right opponent at the right time for instance than open raise to 25% of my stack with TJs.

Even with a decent stack 3betting should be a big part of yr arsenal, especially against loose openers. You'll be amazed at how often you'll get a fold. The trick is, if yr not 3bet shoving, or yr not 3betting for value, try not to comit yrself to a pot with absolute junk should opponent 4bet. IE there's a zone where 3betting light is not especially a good idea.... am not at all sure on the definites here but there are many articles on the subject,,,,, off the top of my head i'd say it's between 17 and 35bb's

I'll stop now b4 i start waffling

J-Hartigan · May 2010

In Response to Re: 3 Betting pre flop - latter stages of a tournament:

You can 3bet with any 2 cards when things add up...... 3bet shoving 10-15bb's works well against looser openers with stacks 12-30bb's No set rule for yr hand strength. You can 3bet shove 12bb's against certain players with 72o with the knowledge that even if they call with AK you still have very good equity. The main thing is not to let yourself get below 12bb's +/- a little dependant on stage of mtt. I'd much rather 3bet shove 64o against the right opponent at the right time for instance than open raise to 25% of my stack with TJs. Even with a decent stack 3betting should be a big part of yr arsenal, especially against loose openers. You'll be amazed at how often you'll get a fold. The trick is, if yr not 3bet shoving, or yr not 3betting for value, try not to comit yrself to a pot with absolute junk should opponent 4bet. IE there's a zone where 3betting light is not especially a good idea.... am not at all sure on the definites here but there are many articles on the subject,,,,, off the top of my head i'd say it's between 17 and 35bb's I'll stop now b4 i start waffling
Posted by cottlad

+1

Stueyh · May 2010

Cheers Cottlad.

You've raised a couple of points I want to look in to further and work on.

Much appreciated.

ps. Unlucky in the Vegas Final the other night. You played a good game for the part that I saw.

Stu

3 Betting pre flop - latter stages of a tournament

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