Can you rate my latest tournament ending hand?

chall425 · February 2014

Hi there,

I'm fairly new to poker (3-4 months). Lately I have frequently managed to get in or around the bubble in £500 b/h or £250 gtd speed.

I'm trying to continue the improvement in my game but seem to be going out in similar circumstances.

Would be grateful for any advice on my latest losing hand. (finished 32nd in £500 b/h).

Thanks

PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalanceTIS-DUDSmall blind 400.00400.0023375.01chall425Big blind 800.001200.0011440.00 Your hole cardsQJ gibbzyFold Chel2310Fold NeedaBrewFold JONESY72Raise 1600.002800.0024325.00TIS-DUDFold chall425Call 800.003600.0010640.00Flop Q22 chall425Check JONESY72Bet 1600.005200.0022725.00chall425Raise 4000.009200.006640.00JONESY72Call 2400.0011600.0020325.00Turn 8 chall425All-in 6640.0018240.000.00JONESY72Call 6640.0024880.0013685.00chall425ShowQJ JONESY72ShowQK River 4 JONESY72WinTwo Pairs, Queens and 2s24880.00 38565.00

Slipwater · February 2014

Well, I don't think you should be check-raising the flop here. By doing that all you are representing is a queen, and - invariably - either he folds (if he doesn't have one), or he calls (if he does). If it's a regular continuation bet, just let him get on with it. Don't raise him off the pot. You want to keep him there if he's bluffing. As it happens, he has the best hand - it happens - but you may have kept your tournament life had you not got more chips in on the flop.

Leeroy546 · February 2014

Obviously a little unlucky to run into that better kicker.

Firstly I'd look at your pre-flop call. At that blind level in my view you are probably right to see the flop but you might want to play a tighter game at an earlier stage. Overall I wouldn't criticise the call.

I think the error is probably your 4k raise. You can justifiably think you are in front at that point but you only have one pair and an average kicker so I think you need to be more tentative there and maybe flat call and see what he does on the turn. You've probably gone too aggressive there and then you're so involved you've had to shove.

Others may think differently though!

hhyftrftdr · February 2014

In Response to Re: Can you rate my latest tournament ending hand?:

Well, I don't think you should be check-raising the flop here. By doing that all you are representing is a queen, and - invariably - either he folds (if he doesn't have one), or he calls (if he does). If it's a regular continuation bet, just let him get on with it. Don't raise him off the pot. You want to keep him there if he's bluffing. As it happens, he has the best hand - it happens - but you may have kept your tournament life had you not got more chips in on the flop.
Posted by Slipwater

I think you're always going broke with this stack size if you peel QJ and flop top pair.

------------------------------------------------------------

OP, I'd look at the call pre. Table dynamic will determine if its a raise or a fold pre. I wouldn't be comfortable just flatting here and having to play the pot OOP. We're just gonna brick it so often, and have to check fold to a cbet unless we're feeling very fruity.

If he is raising every button, you have a great re jamming stack. Yes, we could be in bad shape if called, but if villain is active then I'd expect to get folds much more often than not, especially given the table positions. There is 2800 chips (about 25% of our stack) just sitting there in the middle, that we can pinch pre flop by shipping. You also have great fold equity vs their stack.

If button has been quite passive/inactive, we can just let QJ go I think, and look for a better spot.

DoubleAAA · February 2014

Get it all in pre flop as the btn will/should be opening so wide here, unless of course the btn has hardly opened. When we shove here, it's so hard for the btn to call, unless of course we have hit the top of his opening range.

However as you saw the flop, don't check raise this, we fold out everything we beat, the board is so dry we want to keep him in, so check/calling is good.

MattBates · February 2014

In Response to Re: Can you rate my latest tournament ending hand?:

In Response to Re: Can you rate my latest tournament ending hand? : I think you're always going broke with this stack size if you peel QJ and flop top pair. ------------------------------------------------------------ OP, I'd look at the call pre. Table dynamic will determine if its a raise or a fold pre. I wouldn't be comfortable just flatting here and having to play the pot OOP. We're just gonna brick it so often, and have to check fold to a cbet unless we're feeling very fruity. If he is raising every button, you have a great re jamming stack. Yes, we could be in bad shape if called, but if villain is active then I'd expect to get folds much more often than not, especially given the table positions. There is 2800 chips (about 25% of our stack) just sitting there in the middle, that we can pinch pre flop by shipping. You also have great fold equity vs their stack. If button has been quite passive/inactive, we can just let QJ go I think, and look for a better spot.
Posted by hhyftrftdr

Wise words from the multi lettered one!

With our stack size we aren't really in the seeing flops stage of the game. At this point we want to be 3bet jamming all in. If we were suited and pot was multi way then I could see a good argument for calling and getting it in on certain flops where we have good equity.

Regarding whether we should 3bet jam we need to consider how often our opponent is raising (eg their image) and what our image is. If we have an aggro image we will get called wider so should shove a tighter range.

yoyo · February 2014

yeah i'm shoving here pre vs a button raise a lot of the time.

that being said i don't mind a flat call even from a 10-15bb stack from time to time, taking it to the streets y'know; but i don't really see a way out when we flop well - sometimes we're just gonna run into a better hand.

can't see myself folding too often tbf, would probably need to be a supersnedd type player opening the button for that to happen...

F_Ivanovic · February 2014

If BTN is opening a decent amount (40%+) then shoving pre is definitely my preffered option. That being said there's quite a few players on sky that aren't BTN opening relentlessly and maybe have a VPIP there of only 25%. Against these players I prefer flatting with QJ. We are never going to be able to shove profitably with QJ because we aren't getting enough folds and when we do get called we probably have at best 36% equity vs their range. (this is if they're calling off 15%)

But given the price we are getting it's still a good enough hand to peel against a 25% range. Flop is a clear flat. Board is really dry and when we're raising we are rarely being called by worse and never folding out better. Sure, we fold out overcards but most of the time villain has 3 outs at best if he's behind. That's only 16% equity, and not enough equity to be worried about protecting against.

That being said TP3K with this SPR and I don't think you can do much else but go broke, was just a bit UL with what you ran into.

jams88 · February 2014

In Response to Re: Can you rate my latest tournament ending hand?:

If BTN is opening a decent amount (40%+) then shoving pre is definitely my preffered option. That being said there's quite a few players on sky that aren't BTN opening relentlessly and maybe have a VPIP there of only 25%. Against these players I prefer flatting with QJ. We are never going to be able to shove profitably with QJ because we aren't getting enough folds and when we do get called we probably have at best 36% equity vs their range. (this is if they're calling off 15%) But given the price we are getting it's still a good enough hand to peel against a 25% range. Flop is a clear flat. Board is really dry and when we're raising we are rarely being called by worse and never folding out better. Sure, we fold out overcards but most of the time villain has 3 outs at best if he's behind. That's only 16% equity, and not enough equity to be worried about protecting against. That being said TP3K with this SPR and I don't think you can do much else but go broke, was just a bit UL with what you ran into.
Posted by F_Ivanovic

There is a lot of fancy poker talk in here chall and as you have only been playing a couple of months I wouldn't expect you to understand it all but the reply is a solid one. Any bits you are unsure of just ask and someone will explain in further detail for you

chall425 · February 2014

Hi all,

Thanks for all the replies to my original post.

Finished 4th in £250 gtd spd last night. (decent return for my level).

What I learnt from all the above replies definitely helped me get deeper in comp.

Went out doing the right thing, just unlucky.

Thanks again.

Chall425

Batkin88 · February 2014

Shove pre, or fold but never call unless you know if you lead flops and btn mucks all missing hands.

Can you rate my latest tournament ending hand?

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