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Should I bet river?

mrdaviesmrdavies Member Posts: 475
edited November 2014 in Strategy
fi33er Small blind   £0.10 £0.10 £13.56
BobTheBee Big blind   £0.20 £0.30 £33.21
  Your hole cards
  • Q
  • A
     
GothGod Fold        
Gazza1972 Call   £0.20 £0.50 £19.10
mrdavies Raise   £0.80 £1.30 £31.61
NL_King Call   £0.80 £2.10 £16.34
fi33er Fold        
BobTheBee Call   £0.60 £2.70 £32.61
Gazza1972 Call   £0.60 £3.30 £18.50
Flop
   
  • 8
  • J
  • 7
     
BobTheBee Check        
Gazza1972 Bet   £0.20 £3.50 £18.30
mrdavies Call   £0.20 £3.70 £31.41
NL_King Call   £0.20 £3.90 £16.14
BobTheBee Call   £0.20 £4.10 £32.41
Turn
   
  • A
     
BobTheBee Check        
Gazza1972 Bet   £0.20 £4.30 £18.10
mrdavies Raise   £2.45 £6.75 £28.96
NL_King Call   £2.45 £9.20 £13.69
BobTheBee Fold        
Gazza1972 Call   £2.25 £11.45 £15.85
River
   
  • 8
     
           
           
           
           
           
           
           

Comments

  • shakinacesshakinaces Member Posts: 1,590
    edited September 2014
    I assume that it gets checked to you on the river?

    I think I probably take the decision to bet/fold here... lots of worse aces and maybe even some jacks may call here so worth going for value... probably 1/2 pot or just over and try to price in both to call...
  • Lambert180Lambert180 Member Posts: 12,197
    edited September 2014
    It's tricky. I guess all Ax call now that the board has paired because now all Ax have the jack as their kicker.

    I think we can value bet (and fold to a raise) but we have to go small imo, like I wouldn't go anything over £5
  • mrdaviesmrdavies Member Posts: 475
    edited September 2014
    Yep, agree with both posts! Just didnt want a shabby 8 re raising me or a slow played flopped str8!

    Chickened out and checked it down im afraid!
  • jimb0d1jimb0d1 Member Posts: 659
    edited September 2014
    Chk for me.
  • -ACERAG--ACERAG- Member Posts: 180
    edited November 2014
    In Response to Re: Should I bet river?:
    bet for value if u get raised u know ya beat  love these spots for thin value if u dnt bet here i feel ya losing value
    Posted by IDONKCALLU
    Agree, he called you with ace 10 and many other weaker aces, thinking the jack plays and its a split pot. Very thin value, but surely thats a spot to get value.

    Loving the 20p bet on the flop, hes showing extreme weakness. 

    Another question should be should you raise the flop been the pre flop aggressor and been faced with a very weak 20 p bet on the flop ?
  • shakinacesshakinaces Member Posts: 1,590
    edited November 2014
    In Response to Re: Should I bet river?:
    In Response to Re: Should I bet river? : Agree, he called you with ace 10 and many other weaker aces, thinking the jack plays and its a split pot. Very thin value, but surely thats a spot to get value. Loving the 20p bet on the flop, hes showing extreme weakness.  Another question should be should you raise the flop been the pre flop aggressor and been faced with a very weak 20 p bet on the flop ?
    Posted by -ACERAG-
    I often feel this way when you see these min bets post-flop... yet it is so frequently 'something' that they are betting for protection (ie bottom pair) that you often don't fold them out by raising, so I think it's a leak to raise when we don't have a made hand, particularly on a fairly wet flop like this.

    Furthermore, we've still got 2 more players to act - who between have a range which is highly likely to have a piece of this flop and likely to come along for the ride... therefore I'm not sure us raising gets value from worse, folds (much) better or really protects our own hand (A high).

    At times it feels like a leak that I call these bets at all... but I can never fold to them. Probably just sticks in the mind the amount of times that I face something like A8 here (ignoring river card), that min bet flop 2nd pair and left me unknowingly drawing to 3 live outs / donking off chips when I do hit my ace.
  • -ACERAG--ACERAG- Member Posts: 180
    edited November 2014
    In Response to Re: Should I bet river?:
    In Response to Re: Should I bet river? : I often feel this way when you see these min bets post-flop... yet it is so frequently 'something' that they are betting for protection (ie bottom pair) that you often don't fold them out by raising, so I think it's a leak to raise when we don't have a made hand, particularly on a fairly wet flop like this. Furthermore, we've still got 2 more players to act - who between have a range which is highly likely to have a piece of this flop and likely to come along for the ride... therefore I'm not sure us raising gets value from worse, folds (much) better or really protects our own hand (A high). At times it feels like a leak that I call these bets at all... but I can never fold to them. Probably just sticks in the mind the amount of times that I face something like A8 here (ignoring river card), that min bet flop 2nd pair and left me unknowingly drawing to 3 live outs / donking off chips when I do hit my ace.
    Posted by shakinaces


    Good point about calling these min bets being possibly a leak, but with 2 overs to the flop and faced with amazing pot odds surely you can not fold. I suppose if any of the 2 players left to act raises then you fold. I also agree these min bets normally stink of bottom pair, small pocket pair or a big draw and they want to get a cheap card.
  • CraigSG1CraigSG1 Member Posts: 1,582
    edited November 2014
    Easy bet fold. It's rare anyone ever check raises river as a bluff at these levels. 
  • F_IvanovicF_Ivanovic Member Posts: 2,390
    edited November 2014
    Most of the time I treat min-bets like a check. Would I bet here 4 way with AQ on this board? Nope. So I'm certainly not going to raise a "check" (min-bet) Despite treating min bets like checks I will sometimes fold to them. In a HU pot I'm never folding a min-bet when getting such great odds but in a 4 way pot the problem lies with the 2 players yet to act. It's a board that could well have hit one of them and with them both facing a min bet and call it's likely one of them will raise (bet) if they have something. So in this case our 20p call is a complete waste of money! Remember, every BB counts. When you think a lot of winning players have win-rates of only 1-2BB per 100 hands at most then throwing away one big blind is going to add up.

    So generally my decision to call in this spot will depend on how passive the other players are. If I think I'm going to see a turn enough of the time (maybe at least 30%) by calling the min-bet then I think it's OK. Still, our hand is unlikely to improve much. Would be great to hit a back door flush but at best we're going to hit an A where we can still be behind already to straights/2 pair or sets. Or where someone has a pair and has either a Q or A killing our outs because it gives them 2 pair.

    Thus, to make the call profitable we absolutely have to be going for thin value and getting the most out of it when we do hit one of the best cards for us. And so I think betting river is mandatory - would agree with Lambert's sizing.
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