Overpair on a double-paired board oop

shakinaces · February 2015

My head has gone to mush this last week.

a) should this be a spot I continue to bet on the turn?

b) after checking the turn am I pretty much obliged to call turn and river because my hand looks weaker than it is?

oppo is fairly reggish at these levels / some nl20 and probably playing 6-8 tables at this point.

Not sure how many made hands he'd have called with pre that beat me, other than 22, 55, JJ - maybe A5/A2s but can't see any other combos of those cards in his range, especially from MP.

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
CraigSG1	Small blind		£0.05	£0.05	£15.15
ALoc	Big blind		£0.10	£0.15	£12.57
3En3rgy	Ante		£0.05	£0.20	£9.95
	Your hole cards	Q Q
shakinaces	Raise		£0.40	£0.60	£13.86
xxxx	Call		£0.40	£1.00	£8.70
3En3rgy	Fold
CbetBass	Call		£0.40	£1.40	£14.13
CraigSG1	Fold
ALoc	Fold
Flop
		5 2 J
shakinaces	Bet		£0.90	£2.30	£12.96
xxxx	Call		£0.90	£3.20	£7.80
CbetBass	Fold
Turn
		5
shakinaces	Check
xxxx	Bet		£2.20	£5.40	£5.60
shakinaces	Call		£2.20	£7.60	£10.76
River
		2
shakinaces	Check
xxxx	All-in		£5.60	£13.20	£0.00
shakinaces

mrsduck · February 2015

Call!

Lambert180 · February 2015

As played, call river.

I'd bet turn, jam river

AMYBR · February 2015

Dont mean to send like a twonk but this is simialr to hands i used to post a few years back. Its great to think deeply about the game and break stuff down. But in many ways poker is just far easier when you skim across the surface

Theres just no reason in the world to check turn. We kind of only have a decision on river due to the weird slowdown, convincing oppo that his hand is likely good, which then confuses ourselves.

We ought to just be plain betting for value on turn. We arent c'fing and if guy has spiked its just next hand please. Spend a week experimenting with just how wide your vbets can get called while mixing it up with reps airballs and being comfortable vbing weak out of flow with appropriate board textures.

Play within your roll and if your decisions are too hard play lower. But this is just slam dunk spot for value cooler or no cooler

watkin06 · February 2015

bet turn jam river , yup sounds right to me , if the kids hit his 5 or 2 that sucks ,

Matt237 · February 2015

a) 100% yes

b) 100% yes

shakinaces · February 2015

Thanks for the feedback all.

Fair to say that one of my biggest weaknesses is trying to make things as complicated as possible for myself at all times

FWIW

My thinking when OOP with an overpair on boards like this is that when a reg calls my UTG raise from MP they are never going to be super light.

Therefore they will call a cbet a lot of the time (as I'd cbet this board with almost everything) but if I bet turn I'm likely folding out stuff I beat (any overcard combo, a lot of mid pairs 66-TT, weak top pairs like QJs/JTs and cards calling with backdoors like 89s/T9s etc) and only definitely getting calls from stuff that crushes me (ie sets) and AJ/KJ.

I almost certainly don't barrel enough with weak hands, which means I'd expect oppo to take a stab if I cbet / give up (so happy to call turn). Which feels like it is something I should be doing more often, rather than just 'bet, bet, bet' and tend to take the pot down on the turn and therefore lose value from my big pairs.

Obviously against an unknown/non-multi tabler I'd expect to get called down way wider and therefore would be betting for value all three streets (and swearing loudly if they were playing pots with 5 or 2 in their range and bink)

FWIW2 the oppo flicked over 22 here for quads.

mrsduck · February 2015

Ahhh unlucky, nothing beats 22

AMYBR · February 2015

In Response to Re: Overpair on a double-paired board oop:

Thanks for the feedback all. Fair to say that one of my biggest weaknesses is trying to make things as complicated as possible for myself at all times FWIW My thinking when OOP with an overpair on boards like this is that when a reg calls my UTG raise from MP they are never going to be super light. Therefore they will call a cbet a lot of the time (as I'd cbet this board with almost everything) but if I bet turn I'm likely folding out stuff I beat (any overcard combo, a lot of mid pairs 66-TT, weak top pairs like QJs/JTs and cards calling with backdoors like 89s/T9s etc) and only definitely getting calls from stuff that crushes me (ie sets) and AJ/KJ. I almost certainly don't barrel enough with weak hands, which means I'd expect oppo to take a stab if I cbet / give up (so happy to call turn). Which feels like it is something I should be doing more often, rather than just 'bet, bet, bet' and tend to take the pot down on the turn and therefore lose value from my big pairs. Obviously against an unknown/non-multi tabler I'd expect to get called down way wider and therefore would be betting for value all three streets (and swearing loudly if they were playing pots with 5 or 2 in their range and bink) FWIW2 the oppo flicked over 22 here for quads.
Posted by shakinaces

This was something I was very guilty of for a long time. I havent posted here for a long time but was a very reg contributer, tying myself up and overanalysing spots such as this.

With your thoughts on being oop and decent regs range: i'd rather b/f than c/c c/f as we really are only losing value over volume, plus leaving ourself in hero fld territory on river when we c/c or b/c. Obv never c/fing

We ought to be betting for value until we are not

vs good J's and 10's >

Overpair on a double-paired board oop

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