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Need advice on handling a downswing
FeelGroggy
Member Posts: 828
After having a +£3k week in early June i've proceeded to polish off £650 on sky and probably around £200 on other sites in the last month. (probably played 125 tourneys) When i'm downswinging I feel more reluctant to grind and I find myself losing interest mid-grind when I've busted the main and a £55 and I'm left with a couple of £11's for example, where I have to essentially ship it to profit. I also find myself doubting my ability and can't tell if my downswing is due to running bad or if playing badly is a factor. i feel like I haven't played my best in the past month but maybe that's just being results orientated. Anyway a few questions:
1. What is a standard number of games for a downswing to last/ your biggest downswing?
2. At what point should I be taking a serious look at my game to identify bad habits I might have picked up?
3. What is the best way of approaching a downswing? Increasing/ reducing volume?
4. How do you improve your mental game?
I know that every player goes through downswings and that it is pretty standard to go 125 games without making profit but even with that knowledge losing consistently still bothers me and probably effects me at the tables too, not in terms of tilt just not playing my A+ game. Is there any way of learning to be emotionally detached from the results? At the moment whenever I start a session I feel like I'm going to lose and lately that has been the usual outcome. I know eventually I'll start winning again but I struggle maintaining a positive and logical outlook when things start going wrong.
I'm not looking to drop down stakes (although not playing the 55's wouldn't be a disaster) as I use poker as a source of income whilst I do a history degree. I have just ordered 'The Mental Game of Poker' as it has been recommended to me. I'm not looking for sympathy just advice on how to better myself as a poker player, I feel like my mental game is a very weak aspect. Any advice would be appreciated. Hopefully this post doesn't come across as whiny :-)
1. What is a standard number of games for a downswing to last/ your biggest downswing?
2. At what point should I be taking a serious look at my game to identify bad habits I might have picked up?
3. What is the best way of approaching a downswing? Increasing/ reducing volume?
4. How do you improve your mental game?
I know that every player goes through downswings and that it is pretty standard to go 125 games without making profit but even with that knowledge losing consistently still bothers me and probably effects me at the tables too, not in terms of tilt just not playing my A+ game. Is there any way of learning to be emotionally detached from the results? At the moment whenever I start a session I feel like I'm going to lose and lately that has been the usual outcome. I know eventually I'll start winning again but I struggle maintaining a positive and logical outlook when things start going wrong.
I'm not looking to drop down stakes (although not playing the 55's wouldn't be a disaster) as I use poker as a source of income whilst I do a history degree. I have just ordered 'The Mental Game of Poker' as it has been recommended to me. I'm not looking for sympathy just advice on how to better myself as a poker player, I feel like my mental game is a very weak aspect. Any advice would be appreciated. Hopefully this post doesn't come across as whiny :-)
Comments
Everyone has times when they doubt their ability. You should focus on reducing/eliminating mistakes. Turning to your questions:-
1. There is no standard length for a downswing. I have had several lasting several thousand tournaments. I remember one where I had 10 consecutive 4th place finishes on final tables. Another where AA lost 6 times in a row. It happens. It's poker. That is why weaker players play, because everyone can win (just not as often). I have been lucky-my worst downswing is only about £30,000.
2. You should ALWAYS be looking for leaks etc, just as much when you are winning. We forget that sometimes bad plays are rewarded
3. Remember that without downswings there can be no upswings. During downswings I tend to maintain volume but lower my buy-ins, particularly where the field sizes are smaller. As an example, I will drop a £55/£1500 before a £55/£3000. This is not because of the reduced first prize, just because the standard will be higher in the smaller field.
4. Playing poker can be mentally tough. The main reason why most people stop playing is because they cannot handle downswings, either financially or mentally. You are running well this year,according to sharkscope. You need to appreciate that "this year" means more than "this month"!
With respect, you are going to have a lot worse downswings, both in size and duration. You need to prepare for that, both financially and mentally. Look on sharkscope, and find any winning player over some years. Go into "statistics" and look at "worst 500 streak av profit". Anyone who does not have a large-ish minus number there has not played enough poker yet!
I hope that helps.
That's a great reply by Essex Phil.
I will reply - not so eloquently, but in a slightly different vein - shortly, too.
Hi Groggy.
Define "downswing"?
I have had a look at your Sharkscope, & to my mind, you are not on a downswing, & it's not even close.
You have a 5 figure profit & a 50% ROI over 1,700+ games, & are just £600 shy of your (five figure) "peak". That's around 5%.
That £600 or 5% was over your last 92 games. 92 games is not anything like a meaningful sample size when you have played 1,714 MTT's.
That's not a downswing, or even close to a downswing.
You have a 50% ROI over 1,700 games - which is amazingly good, but that is simply not sustainable, it has to level off at some stage.
Just carry on doing what you are doing.
But yes, definitely get "The Mental Game of Poker", because it will help you understand the points EssexPhil made. Please also remember there is such a thing as an "upswing".
And we can't have one without the other - by definition, it is not possible.
MTT's will ALWAYS be swingy. Wait until you hot a proper downswing - now them beauts are eye-watering.
If you don't like variance, it's best to stick to Cash or DYM's.
Good luck.
There's loads of 'quirks' of variance, like every other reg seems to win mains for fun, and I've still to this day won 0 mains on Sky, but then maybe I've done a lot better in the MBI than some other regs or whatever. Nothing u can do about it, just gotta grind it out.
I meant long term you won't have a total ROI over say 20-30% if you're playing the games I thought u were btw ^