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Q7 v J3

TRIP5TRIP5 Member Posts: 3,618
edited January 2010 in Poker Chat
Hi Sky Community,

Please can you clear something up for me? Recently (at a pool tourney of all things) I happened to make it to the final table at live game with a full tilt player...obviously he didn't want to advertise this which was why he was wearing his special full tilt badge!!!

Now, I had A9 suited in position and was getting pretty short, as there had been no raises before me (and in true TK stlyeeee) I shoved, FT guy called under the gun..everyone else folded.

I ended up getting sucked out on the river to his J6 off (he spiked a 6, I'm over it...that's just poker right?)

Now, I was just leaving to collect my lovely winnings when I happened to mention that FT man had called with a below av hand as I believed that the av hand was Q7...In response the table laughed at me, called me an uncultured donkey and told me to get back to my PC (as if that was an insult...lol)

The ACTUAL average hand (I was informed as they laughed with mirth ) is J3 and apparently every 'proper live' player know's this...

So, before I go and make a complete fool of myself again please can you confirm if this is indeed true or fiction? With the facts I can decide if I am indeed an internet yob with no class and low morals...lol

Irene x

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    BlackFish3BlackFish3 Member Posts: 2,418
    edited January 2010
    cant believe they called you that at a live game... isnt the computer hand the average hand? i think its better than J3 tbh.
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    MereNoviceMereNovice Member Posts: 4,364
    edited January 2010
    Q7 is very commonly known as "the computer hand" because, supposedly, it was determined by computer that this is the exact average starting hand in Texas Hold 'Em, i.e. it would win, on average, 50% of the time against a random hand heads-up.

    Having input the hand in PokerStove, the results indicate that Q7o is, indeed, better than average with equity of 51.77%. ("Equity" is just a posh term for its chances of winning).

    PokerStove (and all online odds calculators that I am aware of) only use a sample of hands to create this statistic but I think that you can be fairly confident that this is pretty close to the true value.

    However, it is definitely not true to say that J3 is the average starting hand since this will win only 45.28% of the time.

    PokerStove indicates that Q5o is closer to the average at 50.12%.

    Note that in all of these figures that the odds of a split pot have been consolidated into the winning percentage.

    So, in summary, while Q7 is not the average hand it is much closer to the average than J3o.

    If you'd like more information please let me know.
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    scotty77scotty77 Member Posts: 4,970
    edited January 2010
    in general, live players are pretty bad in every aspect of poker.

    the only thing they excel in is donking off chips easy.


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    pr1nnyraidpr1nnyraid Member Posts: 495
    edited January 2010

    i play alot live and online n tbh it just sounds as tho u were playing with a bunch of pri£$"%!!!

    n the FT player probly stacked off so many times on the site that instead of making another deposit he decided to buy a shirt off ebay as it will last longer than a buy in.

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    TRIP5TRIP5 Member Posts: 3,618
    edited January 2010
    In Response to Re: Q7 v J3:
    cant believe they called you that at a live game... isnt the computer hand the average hand? i think its better than J3 tbh.
    Posted by BlackFish3

    I know...good job I have a hide like a rhino :o)

    To be fair BlackFish3, I have been called much, much worse, especially when I was a total vagabond at school Ooops, bad me!!...pmsl

    x
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    TRIP5TRIP5 Member Posts: 3,618
    edited January 2010
    In Response to Re: Q7 v J3:
    Q7 is very commonly known as "the computer hand" because, supposedly, it was determined by computer that this is the exact average starting hand in Texas Hold 'Em, i.e. it would win, on average, 50% of the time against a random hand heads-up. Having input the hand in PokerStove, the results indicate that Q7o is, indeed, better than average with equity of 51.77% . ("Equity" is just a posh term for its chances of winning). PokerStove (and all online odds calculators that I am aware of) only use a sample of hands to create this statistic but I think that you can be fairly confident that this is pretty close to the true value. However, it is definitely not true to say that J3 is the average starting hand since this will win only 45.28% of the time. PokerStove indicates that Q5o is closer to the average at 50.12% . Note that in all of these figures that the odds of a split pot have been consolidated into the winning percentage. So, in summary, while Q7 is not the average hand it is much closer to the average than J3o. If you'd like more information please let me know.
    Posted by MereNovice
    MereNovice, thankyou so much for taking time out to provide me with a brilliantly in-depth analysis, I really appreciate your feedback on this one as I now have some 'proper' facts which I will take with me to every live game forthwith!!!

    Just to let you know that your feedback on here is second to none and I know how much I and the other forumers appreciate such thoughtful postings

    You are a TRUE GENT!!! - may the sun shine eternally on your tables (except if I'm playing you...lol)

    A million thanks

    Irene x
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    TRIP5TRIP5 Member Posts: 3,618
    edited January 2010
    In Response to Re: Q7 v J3:
    in general, live players are pretty bad in every aspect of poker. the only thing they excel in is donking off chips easy.
    Posted by scotty77
    Lol, as long as they donk off (Ooo-errr !!!) in my direction I'll be happy...sadly I seem to be the donkee rather than the donked :o)

    x
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    TRIP5TRIP5 Member Posts: 3,618
    edited January 2010
    In Response to Re: Q7 v J3:
    i play alot live and online n tbh it just sounds as tho u were playing with a bunch of pri£$"%!!! n the FT player probly stacked off so many times on the site that instead of making another deposit he decided to buy a shirt off ebay as it will last longer than a buy in.
    Posted by hotpotato
    Now there's an idea... It's all about table image baby lol

    x
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