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River Raise

mcglynn07mcglynn07 Member Posts: 154
edited April 2017 in The Poker Clinic
I would like some help please.  BB has one played one hand well with AK and doubled up early, although three of is entered pot the button folded as soon as betting started. I think my mistake was not betting flop. Im small blind vs BB and Button limps.
Stacks are mine, is rougly 6k with BB 11K . Antes are in play but very small and villain seems competent.

Button Calls     60
ME   SB   AA Raises 240
Villain BB ?? Calls    240
Button  Calls    240  POT 768
FLOP is JcThJs
SB Checks
BB Checks
Button Checks POT 768
TURN  is Td
SB Bet 240
BB Calls 240
Button  Folds POT 1248
River is Kc
SB Bet 480 POT 1728
BB Raise 2448      POT 4176

I tank and fold. Thoughts Betting the flop is maybe mandatory to get a feel for where I am, was thinking that this is maybe a two street hand and cant get three full streets ( but thining now this thought should come after betting flop and re-evaluting on turn and river). Felt I got played afterwards as Viallian never wanted to grow the pot which i think he would with a jack or a ten, and then when river comes he wants to stroing arm the pot off me. I think he has something but even if he had a straight like AQ I can't see him raising so big when I could have a house myself. I was trying to get value off of AK and KQ when I made my river bet but this seems very thin now.   Any thoughts appreciated and any criticism welcome. Thanks Danny
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    markycashmarkycash Member Posts: 2,837
    edited April 2017
    As played, easy fold. He could have the Tx, Jx or KJ. Doubt he has AQ as he would likely thin the field preflop.

    I guess he could be bluffing but you have fired twice and been heavily reraised on the river. If he has nothing then so be it, he has position and is repping more than AA.

    I can understand the merits of limping AA preflop in early position but in the SB you are going to be completely OOP post flop versus 2 hands that have not been defined (well 1 at least who has not voluntarily put anything in the pot). The flop could literally be anything, for example say it is 223 rainbow and the BB reraises you like in this example. Again you would only be beating a bluff and the BB could easily have the 2 as he has seen the flop free and is unlikely to have an overpair as he has checked behind preflop. 

    It just makes it so much harder to get value out of your hand when your opponent has seen the flop for free and you are OOP. I would only consider the limp here if I thought there was a very high chance the BB was going to come steaming over the top to chase out the limpers.
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    Angmar2626Angmar2626 Member Posts: 886
    edited April 2017
    Think he does raise pre - was btn that limped.

    100bb deep though I think raise bigger pre oop? And bet flop :)
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    mcglynn07mcglynn07 Member Posts: 154
    edited April 2017
    In Response to Re: River Raise:
    Think he does raise pre - was btn that limped. 100bb deep though I think raise bigger pre oop? And bet flop :)
    Posted by Angmar2626
    Thanks Angmar and Markycash for your  thoughts  Thining Back I like the idea of betting more preflop with bigger rasie size as I dont have to have a hand to do this and the bigger I go the more it looks like making moves. The main problem with my play was the  no cbet after raising pre. It does then leave me guessing later in the hand and doesn't really define villains range. 
    I am still torn about this whether it was a fold but I am glad that I have arrived at that point in my game that I can fold aces anmd say next hand.
    I did get that feeling of being beaten with the river raise but as I reveiw my session  I think his only bluffs here are 88, 99, 78 and
    89.    AK and KQ are now very thin value  but one thing I know is that he played his hand better than me all round  so deserves to drag it.  
    He did make a comment though after taking it alongs the lines of  hmmmm thought so and i said my hand and asked him his and he said nothing he thought i was bluffing which does not really add up,   maybe meta game  but hey good luck to him.   
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    markycashmarkycash Member Posts: 2,837
    edited April 2017
    My bad, didnt see the raise, thought BB was 240.
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    mcglynn07mcglynn07 Member Posts: 154
    edited April 2017
    In Response to Re: River Raise:
    My bad, didnt see the raise, thought BB was 240.
    Posted by markycash
    The JJ VS KK hand you posted was very interesting and very situational. Do you think the talking part of comments he made to you was a good tactic. Is this something you would use?
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