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Should I call this river shove with aces

Summers119Summers119 Member Posts: 193
edited November 2017 in The Poker Clinic
Hi I was looking for some advice on this hand in Sunday's mini main event. I was dealt aces and got called by the big blind. My intention was to bet bet jam however he lead shoved the river. The Villain I don't really have many notes on however I don't think he was a reg and I can't seem to find too many bluffs in his range. The question is, should I have folded AA here? Do I beat any value shoves? What bluffs can he have? One of the leaks in my game is that I am a complete sucker for pot odds and hate making big folds but I really dislike my call here on reflection and almost folded. This hand was near the money maybe 20/30 off. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Small blind 400.00
Big blind 800.00
Your hole cards
As
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wettowel Fold
scotty77 Fold
Summers119 Raise 1800.00 3000.00 34280.00
SAXONTOM Fold
menace1007 Fold
Villain Call 1000.00 4000.00 14655.00

Flop

Qc
8s
6h

Villain Check
Summers119 Bet 1450.00 5450.00 32830.00
Villain Call 1450.00 6900.00 13205.00
Turn

2d

Villain Check
Summers119 Bet 3150.00 10050.00 29680.00
Villain Call 3150.00 13200.00 10055.00
River

Jh

Villain All-in 10055.00 23255.00 0.00
Summers119 Call 10055.00 33310.00 19625.00

Villain Show
10c
9d

Summers119 Show
A
A

Villain Win Straight to the Queen 33310.00 33310.00
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    HENDRIK62HENDRIK62 Member Posts: 3,148
    I hate the villains play, but I think you should size your bets bigger, he may still come along on the flop but its a very very optimistic call with only a gutter on turn. Very tough to get 3 streets with aces
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    hhyftrftdrhhyftrftdr Member Posts: 8,036
    HENDRIK62 said:

    I hate the villains play, but I think you should size your bets bigger, he may still come along on the flop but its a very very optimistic call with only a gutter on turn. Very tough to get 3 streets with aces

    Double gutter ;)

    Initially I thought the sizing looked a tad small but the board is so dry and villain doesn't have much back that I think it's ok. Nothing really to protect against on either the flop or turn and we can get value from all Qx hands plus some none-believers holding 8x/6x/small pair type hands who can't let go (perhaps due to the smaller sizing)

    River is a tricky spot, but I think if we're up against an unknown then I'd need to see it I think. It's not a great card (more due to QJ/J8 rather than 9T) but you sometimes see randoms just explode with top pair on the river and occasionally the odd airball.

    I think you will be beat here sometimes, but having nearly 25bb behind if we're behind would lean me towards a call....and then some detailed 4 letter word notes when the pot goes their way.

    History and notes are so important in spots like this, and if you have neither then I think you shouldn't be passing AA very often :)
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    HENDRIK62HENDRIK62 Member Posts: 3,148
    hhyftrftdr said:

    HENDRIK62 said:

    I hate the villains play, but I think you should size your bets bigger, he may still come along on the flop but its a very very optimistic call with only a gutter on turn. Very tough to get 3 streets with aces

    Double gutter ;)

    Initially I thought the sizing looked a tad small but the board is so dry and villain doesn't have much back that I think it's ok. Nothing really to protect against on either the flop or turn and we can get value from all Qx hands plus some none-believers holding 8x/6x/small pair type hands who can't let go (perhaps due to the smaller sizing)

    River is a tricky spot, but I think if we're up against an unknown then I'd need to see it I think. It's not a great card (more due to QJ/J8 rather than 9T) but you sometimes see randoms just explode with top pair on the river and occasionally the odd airball.

    I think you will be beat here sometimes, but having nearly 25bb behind if we're behind would lean me towards a call....and then some detailed 4 letter word notes when the pot goes their way.

    History and notes are so important in spots like this, and if you have neither then I think you shouldn't be passing AA very often :)
    I hadn't had my cocoa so I never noticed the lower gutter.....

    I think a lot of what you say makes sense, but by the time we make river we have priced in so many combos and draws, in game you know I would never fold as I make Kings Cross look like a part timer but I feel we should.
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    Summers119Summers119 Member Posts: 193
    Thanks for the feedback guys, should maybe make it a tad bigger on the flop and turn, and yeah probably can't fold the river although you do puke when they decide to lead shove!
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    Summers119Summers119 Member Posts: 193
    With no reads that is
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    FeelGroggyFeelGroggy Member Posts: 824
    I think you played the hand well postflop, I like flop and turn sizing. The river isn't the best for our hand but I would still look to jam if checked to. When he donk jams it changes everything. It takes away from his marginal value range, hands like QT would be very odd for him to jam and weights him more to a value range that has us beat. I think most players on sky are gonna find value hands that beat us in this spot quite often when they donk jam. It's hard to think of bluffs other than 97/57 if they're still in his range till river. I think this is a really tough spot. It's hard to fold an overpair when you only start 20bb deep pre, but the way its played out its hard to imagine we win too often. I think this a really tough spot and would call/fold here based on gut instinct.
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    CraigSG1CraigSG1 Member Posts: 1,811
    I thought he played the hand well until the river. I think, personally, its a relatively easy fold. I would hate it, but considering there are just too few bluffs here and I very much doubt he is jamming, say, AQ here for value its more likely he has a 2 pr hand or set more than the actual straight he has! I would have said QJ tbh.

    I think the argument here is if the villain played the river correctly! I think he got lucky as, again, with the dryness of the board you need a very strong hand to call.

    Is not the better play here to check to the guy that has raised pre and fired two streets? If he is bluffing/value betting your pretty much guaranteed to get another bet and he then has to call the majority of the time when you jam?
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    Summers119Summers119 Member Posts: 193
    Thanks Groggy and Craig as well for your feedback. I agree I like the fold now the more time i get to think about it as I can't see a hand he turns into a bluff, and although I have not got too many reads I don't think this guy was a reg so he is probably shoving 100% better value hands here. I raised pre Craig he defended the big blind and checked to me twice.
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    CraigSG1CraigSG1 Member Posts: 1,811
    I got that Summers - I meant from the perspective of the villain. I was saying was the villain right to jam river?
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    Summers119Summers119 Member Posts: 193
    Ah got you. Id say the river hits his range more than mine without going into too much detail on that so it is not bad if he was a balanced player, however I would look to check as I would fold all queens if he lead jams and if he checks I probs still jam aq kq qj for value which would make a check more profitable.
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