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Pot Limit Holdem
The--Don
Member Posts: 392
Is there any chance you could create some pot limit holdem tables at £20 and £30nl please?
There are some at higher stakes and I would like to see some at lower stakes too if possible. Recreational players seem to take to them and it makes for a more skillful game post flop as post flop happens more often due to players not being able to shut the game down pre as easily with large bets.
I guess these tables generate more rake too when they run, so everyone is happy
There are some at higher stakes and I would like to see some at lower stakes too if possible. Recreational players seem to take to them and it makes for a more skillful game post flop as post flop happens more often due to players not being able to shut the game down pre as easily with large bets.
I guess these tables generate more rake too when they run, so everyone is happy
Comments
A lot of regs avoid the 50PL tables because if you're multitabling, you can't exclusively play PLHE because there's no traffic, and NLHE and PLHE together can be confusing - The last thing I want when deciding what line to take in a hand is to take a line where I set up a 2x pot overbet OTR as a bluff, then "Oh I can't do that, this is the PL table".
I suspect recs probably want NLHE because that's what they see on TV, they just care less than regs do about sitting at a PL cash table, given there's no immediately noticeable differences between the two, unlike say FLHE or PLO.
I wonder just how many recs even realise they're sitting at a PLHE table rather than an NLHE table. I know when I played 50nl regularly that I often sat at the PLHE table by mistake, and wouldn't notice until I tried to shove £28 into a £26 pot OTR and couldn't.
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I also believe you have an ulterior motive for wanting PL games that 'recreational players prefer', or games where regs don't sit, given that you're the first person to seat hop to the left of a perceived 'fish' every time, and that whenever I've tried to sit with you HU to start a game, you just button me and leave - And you do the same thing to every other reg I've spoken to, as well.
You'd rather button someone for 20-30p than play heads up for two minutes while a table fills to the detriment of the game, so naturally when you suggest something that you say is for the good of the game, I have to wonder whether you are being genuine. Are you interested in making Poker better as a whole, or are you interested in creating soft games that regs won't bother to play in because you can't beat/won't play anyone who knows what they're doing?
Given your track record as someone who so has so strongly advocated 'bumhunting' strategies and has called recreational players 'r*tards' in your YouTube videos in the past, I suggest you provide something besides opinion and guesswork to support your argument so that your suggestion can be taken seriously and your motives cannot be questioned.
For NLHE cash 100bb deep, most opens are 3bb, and a pot open is 3.5bb, so unless you open 4x as a default, it doesn't change anything.
A 3bet is typically in the 9-11bb range vs a 3x open. A pot 3bet vs a 3x open (Assuming no limps or calls) is between 9.5bb and 10.5bb, so again, there's little or no deviation from what most players would typically use as a bet sizing.
Any 4b+ with typical sizings 100bb deep is going to fall well within a "pot" bet anyway, with the exception of a 4b jam, and that doesn't happen all that often for it to really matter, especially when they can just 4b/c or 4b pot and jam flop instead.
The only other preflop action it really affects is people just opening 10x or open jamming for the lols, and if people want to do that, I'm certainly not complaining about it.
I'd actually argue that it removes skill, given it takes away the opportunity for overbetting in certain postflop situations.
Seat switching is completely fine. If I'm starting a table, as I often do and two weaker players sit to my immediate left, which is where the software places them unless they specifically choose their seat, why should regs joining the game later get the best seats?
I don't ever remember playing you unless you play on another account too, which would be very hypocritical when lecturing people about ethics. If you can provide evidence of my buttoning you with any kind of frequency, either historically, or in future, I will happily donate a buyin for whatever game we're playing to a charity of your choice.
I used the word retard once in error and it was on a live stream directed at someone who was being very unpleasant in the chat. I apologised and haven't ever done it since and nor will I.
As for saying there is no difference pre flop between PL and NL, you're wrong. Vs a 3x there is little difference but there is a significant difference vs 2.5x or a minraise in terms of post flop SPR's which absolutely have an affect on how the games play.
Years ago, when PL ran regularly on another site I played on, the av pot size was always way bigger than at the NL tables and I would imagine that is the same when the PL games run here too.
Good luck in the new year.
Seat hopping: It's literally saying to the unknown rec player "I want position on you because you're bad". It looks terrible to the rec player, and although I've never been a rec, it probably feels terrible as well. You wouldn't do it in a casino, so online shouldn't be any different. If you want to not have weaker players auto seated on your left, stop sitting in seat 1 when you start tables. Sit in seat 2/3 and Sky will auto seat people who click the "Play Now" button in seat 1, while a reg will likely sit opposite in seat 5/6.
(Personally I'd have a rule that if you stand, you can't sit again for 2-5 minutes at the same table, so if people try to seat hop they probably just lose their seat)
Buttoning: If you don't button any more, then fair enough. I know you don't play me HU starting tables (Meh), but I'll remember the charity offer until I know you play more than one hand from the SB once a game breaks to HU.
--- This is also true for NL. If an open is smaller, the subsequent 3b is also smaller, and still usually less than pot, even in NL. SPR does change with smaller raises pre and affects postflop decisions and sizings, but that's not specific to PL.
Idk if 'bigger pots/more rake for Sky' is true or not - Even taking the statement itself to be true, are the bigger pots because of the pot limit format, or simply because of the types of players in the game? What you say might be true but there's no cause and effect relationship here, we can't simply state "PL means pots are bigger than NL" - If it's because of the types of players playing the game (People wanting to see more flops and not be forced out the pot pre flop, also less regs because they're multitabling NL), it'll only balance out as soon as regs play PL, which they will if they think that's where the value is and there's any meaningful interest and liquidity to make the implementation of more PL tables worthwhile in the first place
I also think many of the regs would just flat out refuse to play PL too. I have seen many a table where there are open seats in a fishy PL game when there are lots of regs in pool and on the other networks back in the day, again, many regs just didn't play, which made for better games for those that did.
We're clearly not going to agree though and it's not really important enough for me to continue going back and forth with you over either.
As for the buttoning thing. Of course there will be times where a game breaks and I sometimes am fortunate enough to have a hand worth raising right before I leave. That, IMO is perfectly acceptable and I won't be shelling out any money on those rare occasions. I also simply just fold in many of those spots.
I don't routinely just steal with any two and then quit and nor do I intend to going forward.
Thanks for the tip re: table starting. I'll absolutely do that in future. I will still seat hop from time to time, especially if I have an aggro reg to my left at a good table, or a great seat opens and I make absolutely no apology for that whatsoever.