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NL10 on a table of limpers and callers take 2

shakinacesshakinaces Member Posts: 1,590
edited February 2013 in The Poker Clinic
Still not learning any lessons from this I guess lol... aside from the two abberations (from me) I've posted in here and a KK v AA hand (which I also played badly, but got me off cheaply lol) it was a fairly good session, which makes it all that more frustrating!

Anyway - is my betsizing OK from the SB?  Is the c-bet sensible on paired/flushing board or should I check/call or bet smaller/fold?

I'm pretty sure that calling the min-bet was just giving away free money and I should have folded, given I didn't have enough knowledge on villain to be willing to go broke on the assumption he held a J... I mean, I have to give an unknown credit for a 5x hand or possibly even set-mining jacks (given the limping at the table with all sorts)
PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
shakinaces Small blind   £0.05 £0.05 £9.85
bb Big blind   £0.10 £0.15 £9.90
  Your hole cards
  • Q
  • Q
     
utg Call   £0.10 £0.25 £10.30
utg+1 Fold        
villain Call   £0.10 £0.35 £13.20
button Call   £0.10 £0.45 £12.32
shakinaces Raise   £0.55 £1.00 £9.30
bb Fold        
utg Call   £0.50 £1.50 £9.80
villain Call   £0.50 £2.00 £12.70
button Fold        
Flop
   
  • 5
  • 5
  • J
     
shakinaces Bet   £1.50 £3.50 £7.80
utg Fold        
villain Raise   £3.00 £6.50 £9.70
shakinaces Call   £1.50 £8.00 £6.30
Turn
   
  • 8
     
shakinaces Check        
villain Bet   £4.00 £12.00 £5.70
shakinaces Fold        
villain Muck        
villain Win   £7.40   £13.10
villain Return   £4.00 £0.60 £17.10
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Comments

  • Lambert180Lambert180 Member Posts: 12,197
    edited February 2013
    Pre good and flop size good.

    I think you need to plan ahead a bit though, if you intend to just c/f a blank turn card then don't call the flop raise imo. Personally I would call the flop raise and C/C the turn.
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  • beanehbeaneh Member Posts: 4,079
    edited February 2013
    I'd stack off on the turn, our oppo has to have literally all the 5x's in his peeling range and just check minraise those for us to be able to fold.

    there are a tonne of draws and Jx hands that we can be ahead of.
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  • percival09percival09 Member Posts: 3,804
    edited February 2013
    yah ^ +1, arent enough 5x combos he could have really, and it's all we're scared of, and he could def have diamonds/tp
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  • BorinLonerBorinLoner Member Posts: 3,863
    edited February 2013
    There are two or three regs at this level who like to telegraph their big hands like this. Against those players, you can almost fold to any aggression at all. They always raise the nuts or near nuts, never semi-bluff and call down with "marginal" hands like TPTK.

    Since you haven't provided any reads to suggest that this particular player is one of those, I don't like the fold for the reasons the others have mentioned. If we think he is one of those players, don't call the flop raise.

    As Lambert says, you've got to think ahead. Calling the flop raise to check-fold on the turn is not a good plan.
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  • shakinacesshakinaces Member Posts: 1,590
    edited February 2013
    Yeah as per 3rd para in my first post, I pretty much knew as soon as I clicked 'call' to the min-raise I was making an error - the subsequent fold was more a case of not wanting to compound the error by throwing away even more cash...

    ...or odds wise, does my bad call on the flop commit me to then stacking on the turn?

    FWIW it was the general passiveness of the table, rarely pushing the bet or raise button, that made me err towards folding the flop... would an otherwise passive player really want to min-raise Jx, flush draws or middle PP here? I seem to throw away full buy-ins too frequently at this level by over-valuing big pocket pairs when people are (maybe?) giving me messages that they have me crushed.

    I didn't recognise the name of the villain Borin, doesn't mean to say it's not one of the players you mentioned mind.

    Thanks for the feedback though, one other q (well, two):

    If committing to going all the way, in this situ would it be a call on the flop then check/re-raise all in on turn?  If I call the flop and it goes check/check on the turn, should I be willing to shove most rivers that aren't a diamond or a jack, or is that also a check/call?
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  • BorinLonerBorinLoner Member Posts: 3,863
    edited February 2013
    In Response to Re: NL10 on a table of limpers and callers take 2:
    If committing to going all the way, in this situ would it be a call on the flop then check/re-raise all in on turn?  If I call the flop and it goes check/check on the turn, should I be willing to shove most rivers that aren't a diamond or a jack, or is that also a check/call?
    Posted by shakinaces
    Given our stack size, yes we should check-raise all-in on the turn if he doesn't set us all-in.

    If the turn is checked back, then we can possibly value bet, which would be a shove. It depends what we make of his range for raising the flop and checking back the turn. If we think he's checking back the turn to see a free card with a draw, we might want to check blank rivers to him so he can bluff. Alternatively we might want to value bet to get value from a Jack or worse pairs.

    Obviously it depends on alot of things: How do we think our opponent plays various hands? How do the turn and river affect that range? Is he the type to just give up and not bluff? Does he raise the flop with marginals like TT?

    It's difficult to answer theoretical questions.
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