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Folded Aces, Good fold?
LARSON7
Member Posts: 4,491
Again player from previous hand, had been playing hands really passive,,, i think my fold is right.
| Tankus752 | Small blind | £0.02 | £0.02 | £2.78 | |
| shabaz1969 | Big blind | £0.04 | £0.06 | £5.07 | |
| Your hole cards |
| ||||
| KarmaUK | Call | £0.04 | £0.10 | £3.90 | |
| LARSON7 | Raise | £0.20 | £0.30 | £5.36 | |
| janyewest | Fold | ||||
| Tierneyyy | Fold | ||||
| Tankus752 | Call | £0.18 | £0.48 | £2.60 | |
| shabaz1969 | Fold | ||||
| KarmaUK | Fold | ||||
| Flop | |||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| |||||
| Tankus752 | Bet | £0.20 | £0.68 | £2.40 | |
| LARSON7 | Raise | £0.40 | £1.08 | £4.96 | |
| Tankus752 | Raise | £0.40 | £1.48 | £2.00 | |
| LARSON7 | Call | £0.20 | £1.68 | £4.76 | |
| Turn | |||||
| |||||
| Tankus752 | Bet | £0.84 | £2.52 | £1.16 | |
| LARSON7 | Fold | ||||
| Tankus752 | Muck | ||||
| Tankus752 | Win | £1.55 | £2.71 | ||
| Tankus752 | Return | £0.84 | |||
Comments
good fold if you think he flopped straight set or 2 pair
First time i;ve ever folded aces on a board like that.
Without seeing that other hand:
Pre-flop is fine.
On the flop, what sort of hands do we think he donk-leads on the flop? Why do we only min-raise and what do we make of his range for min-3-betting?
I don't like the flop min-raise because of all the potential straight draws out there. If our opponent has a draw, we're offering him fantastic odds to make the call. In fact we offer him better than 5:1 on his money and if he just has a bare 9 his odds of hitting the straight on the turn are only a little worse than 4:1. Whenever we charge a draw less than the pot odds they need to outdraw us, we are effectively paying them to call to hit. They're making a mistake if they don't call. We want them to be making a mistake by calling, so we need to offer them worse odds than they need.
However, after making the min-raise and being min-3-bet, if we call we can't fold the 2 on the turn. To call on the flop, we have to think that our opponent can be making this 3-bet with just one-pair or a draw (hands we beat). If he can only be 3-betting with two-pair or better then we should fold to this 3-bet.
The 2 on the turn does nothing to change the hand for us, so if we thought we were winning on the flop, we're still winning on the turn.
Going back to the flop, if we think that our opponent can be 3-betting with weaker hands that will stack off on the flop, then we should probably try to get it all-in here. If we just flat call, a scare card could come on the turn that costs us value or even forces us to fold the better hand.
The min raise, is 2 see where I'm at. I know you say on another board thats a bad play.
When im then 3 bet, for such a low amount, im hoping to close down the betting on the turn. When the 2 a total blank hits, and he bets big, i really now think i am beat and hence why i folded.
I mistakingly thought this was the same player as the previous hand, it was the same seat. This player must have sat down while i was away from the table. I fully understand what you are saying. I dont feel i can fold to such a small re-raise. I think i am beat, but am not 100% sure. At the 2p 4p tables its unusual to get 3 bet as a bluff. My initial thought is he has flopped the straight.
If he 3 bets a lot bigger than 20p im folding. When this bet goes in on the turn, i am 100% sure im behind and thats why i fold.
I could be completely wrong, and have perhaps been bluffed off this hand, but i get the feeling i am beat.
If he did bluff me, good on him, great bluff. However i think i have got away from this hnd cheapily.
I doubt he is min 3 betting with a straight draw.
The thing is, what we're doing when we're playing low stakes is really trying to train ourselves to play higher levels. Nobody really wants to play for just £4 at a time, do they? So if that's the case, we need to think of this call not as being 20p but as being five big blinds. So if we make this call at NL50 instead of NL4, it costs us £2.50 instead of 20p.
Making ill disciplined plays is why so many fundamentally good, thinking players are still playing at low stakes tables. If you think you're beat when this 5BB 3-bet is made and you don't think you have enough good outs, you really need to make the fold and not pay off even this small amount.
Basically you should be betting for a few reasons
1) Value Bet - because you can get called by worse hands
2) Bluff - because you think you can make better hands fold. This kinda links in with semi bluffing too where you don't actually have a hand yet so can make better hands fold AND if you do get called, you can still hit to catch up.
We can assume you didn't raise as a bluff. If you're value raising and think you will get called by OESDs and 1pr hands then raise bigger.
Minraising especially 'finds out' very little because you've offered him such brilliant odds that when he calls you won't have any idea where you are other the fact he probably has at least 1 pr, 2pr, a draw, a straight, a set, 2 overs or a PP.
He only bets 1/2 pot on the turn which isn't particuarly big btw imo.
FWIW, you probably are crushed here, if he has the straight you're as good as dead, a set and you're drawing to 2 outs, 2 pair and you're drawig to your 2 set outs or the board pairing to give you a better 2pr BUT you won't know if the board pairing gives him a FH from a 2pr hand or not. Basically you have to know he is doing this sometimes with 1pr hands and just draws/draws + 1pr and it's unlikely for most people.
once you call the raise (3 bet) on flop, shove turn
your decision should be on the flop if your ahead or not
readless it's hard to say what oppo is leading, could be anything from draw to set
look at hands you beat and hands you don't - if your not sure then just call