20NL - Bet/Fold River?

Lambert180

Villian is a proper loosey goosey, very aggro pre, 3betting a lot! Not seen him showdown much except when he 3bet V me earlier w/ 66.

Do we ever bet/fold this river or is it just too dirty a river for us?

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
WELDERBOY	Small blind		£0.10	£0.10	£15.35
phil1955	Big blind		£0.20	£0.30	£36.85
	Your hole cards	K Q
Lambert180	Raise		£0.60	£0.90	£19.35
X	Raise		£1.80	£2.70	£22.90
bolly580	Fold
SmexiSim	Fold
WELDERBOY	Fold
phil1955	Fold
Lambert180	Call		£1.20	£3.90	£18.15
Flop
		J Q 6
Lambert180	Check
X	Bet		£1.95	£5.85	£20.95
Lambert180	Call		£1.95	£7.80	£16.20
Turn
		K
Lambert180	Check
X	Check
River
		10
Lambert180	Check
X	Check
Lambert180	Show	K Q

craigcu12

i would say the best thing would be to check because the chances are he would fold a bet anyday unless he held the flush in which case he would go on to shove himself a straight he might call but nothing else i think would get called. they just don't seem to ever want to do bets unless they hold the nuts if you were in position i would go with a bet on the river as a way to scare him.

Lambert180

In Response to Re: 20NL - Bet/Fold River?:

i would say the best thing would be to check because the chances are he would fold a bet anyday unless he held the flush in which case he would go on to shove himself a straight he might call but nothing else i think would get called. they just don't seem to ever want to do bets unless they hold the nuts if you were in position i would go with a bet on the river as a way to scare him.
Posted by craigcu12

I don't want to be turning my hand into a bluff. If he has me beat with a straight or flush then he won't fold anyway. I'd be more inclined to value bet the river in position though once I saw him check it to me but that would be with the intention of getting called by a worse 2pr, not making a better hand fold.

percival09

we can raise otf vs this player, repping a lot of draws + air and would be a decent flop to bluff raise with and gives villain chance to spew. turn is fine, sometimes we can c/c flop and lead turn to get more value because he's probably checking back AK/AA here, and he's probably giving up lower pairs, so we can lead to confuse AK/AA and I doubt he can just fold. river I prob check too. I think we play our hand too abc and that's why we don't get any value here

edit* - I prob prefer c/c otf rather than c/r just cos it's an utg raise and there might not even be any dynamic to raise here. I do like c/c flop lead turn tho

Lambert180

I would normally lead the turn but he'd been pretty aggro and I was expecting him to barrel lots of worse hands.

percival09

it's a horrible card for him to barrel because it hits so much of your range, he's even checking back loads of his value hands. 

TPTP123

well played, by not donking flop you kinda loose value from his 6x range+draws when he spazzes out over multiple streets... which isn't really that much tbh so nothing to worry about imo....  A small flop c/r flop, donk turn is good also to set him up to bluff rivers on a dray board but as played i think just keep it simple and let him value town himself and take the line you did. I'm not bet/folding river unless i have very specific and solid reason to do so and i can't see any 

also move table, his direct position on your will cause you headaches, just leave table and readd to wait list.  if you have position on some value then its worth staying and i expect us to be raising every button all day long. 

NColley

In Response to Re: 20NL - Bet/Fold River?:

also move table, his direct position on your will cause you headaches, just leave table and readd to wait list.  if you have position on some value then its worth staying and i expect us to be raising every button all day long. 
Posted by TPTP123

Spot on with this.

This spot is a prime example of why not to keep sitting oop vs an habitual 3 bettor. We decide to peel 3 bet oop with KQo and only win the minium despite making top 2. 

loololollo

no way, the river card is horrific for your hand check it down , wp

Lambert180

Cheers for the advice guys, especially the stuff not specifically related to this hand. I suck when it comes to table selection

TPTP123

In Response to Re: 20NL - Bet/Fold River? : Spot on with this. This spot is a prime example of why not to keep sitting oop vs an habitual 3 bettor. We decide to peel 3 bet oop with KQo and only win the minium despite making top 2. 

Yep, nicely evidenced. We need to be god seating him by trying to sit as close as directly possibly to his right preferably... then we let him TRY to isolate others whilst we reisolate him. a) this will eventually cause him to spax out b) we'll typically find oursleves playing bloated plots due to the dead money that folds to our reisolation raises c) This creates a nice deep table dynnamic that will eventually cause a list of nits to joint waitlist eventually giving you the perfect table flow to just pfr hammer everyone

Obv if you mass table dont worry about things like this for anything more than 4-6 tables. less than that and these are the kinda things that turn us into a beast.