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Advice
19MUFC19
Member Posts: 70
| Player | Action | Cards | Amount | Pot | Balance |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Small blind | 15.00 | 15.00 | 2340.00 | ||
| Big blind | 30.00 | 45.00 | 1600.00 | ||
| Your hole cards |
| ||||
| Fold | |||||
| Call | 30.00 | 75.00 | 1880.00 | ||
| Call | 30.00 | 105.00 | 2010.00 | ||
| 19MUFC19 | Raise | 150.00 | 255.00 | 1915.00 | |
| Fold | |||||
| Fold | |||||
| Call | 120.00 | 375.00 | 1760.00 | ||
| Fold | |||||
| Flop | |||||
| |||||
| Check | |||||
| 19MUFC19 | Bet | 187.50 | 562.50 | 1727.50 | |
| Call | 187.50 | 750.00 | 1572.50 | ||
| Turn | |||||
| |||||
| Check | |||||
| 19MUFC19 | Check | ||||
| River | |||||
| |||||
| Check | |||||
| 19MUFC19 | Check | ||||
| Show |
| ||||
| 19MUFC19 | Muck |
| |||
| Win | Pair of Jacks | 750.00 | |||
I know on the flop and soon as he calls he has a J so how do i carry on playing the hand? I think if i bet again on the turn and river he just calls me down so what do i do?
Comments
Post flop i like the continuation bet when we are called, i'd prob just give up.
Theres not much we can do here. You are right we are getting called all the way, even if you shoved you are prob still getting called.
You did the right think checking it down and saving chips. On turn or river if he bets out its an easy fold.
Well played, what's the problem?
Limiting losses is as important as maximising winnings.
Can bet abit smaller on this flop, but it's fine.
nh, wp.
Same tourny same table i bet 200 get called by 56 suited... I might as well of just gone 120?
Firstly you played the hand perfect.
But...
Why do you think that raising less when he is prepared to call more is a better option?
Both hands in this thread are played perfectly in my opinion.
In the first hand we make a nice raise pre-flop and get called by someone out of position, holding a hand we dominate. That's great for us. That's a profitable play right there and by making our raise bigger to exploit the limper, we've made our play more profitable than if we'd raised smaller. Post flop, we've made a c-bet which will have a high success rate. We've been called and correctly interpreted that to mean we're beat and can't win. We now shut down and don't pay our opponent another penny for his hand. That's a fantastically played hand.
The problem is that you don't see it that way. You're basing your thoughts on the result of this particular pot. You need to base your thoughts on whether your decisions were good or not. If you make good decisions you win and if you make bad decisions you will lose... but that does not apply to a single hand, it applies to your entire poker career.
In your poker career you will face this situation thousands of times. Some of those times you will lose the pot, as you did here. Most of those times you will win. If you continue to make good decisions in all these situations you will win far, far more money than you lose. In each individual hand the amount won or lost is relatively small but across a long period it adds up to a large amount.
This is the reason why so many big losing player think they're only small losing players. They only see themselves losing small amounts at any one point, but multiply those small amounts by the thousands of similar situations they will face and their small individual losses add up to big losses. The same is true in reverse.
You should think that you actually won both these hands. Your opponent won the pot but you won the hand. Try thinking of it that way.
On the second hand I don't like your flop bet for two reasons:
1) It's too big. You've given your opponent a chance to get away easily from his weaker hands and stack you with his better ones. Bet smaller and your opponent may think he has fold equity and shove with worse. You get more value by betting smaller in this situation. By betting so big you narrow his shoving range. There will still be worse hands in that range but not as many.
2) You bet only half-pot on an equally dry flop in the first hand when you have nothing. This makes your c-bets extremely transparent - You bet big when you have it and small when you don't.
I dont know if its just me and how im playing, this is why ive shown a few hands which i seem to lose alot of chips on to get some advice on what i shud bet pre with each hand and what i should do on the flop and so on...
What do you think about my thoughts thats maybe a change of approach, maybe just min raising pre till later stages in the tournament and the more loose players are gone? I know what your saying about losing value on hands and people calling for value but im getting people calling with 56 for example anyway, and again i get your point that over time my hands will win more but as your can see just on that one table i had 3 hands AQ AK JJ called by 56 QJ & J9 and i lost them all lol and i know its cards so anything can come but i feel at the moment the tournament im in alot of the players are any two so i feel i need a different approach to how i play
The Jack is not that big a part of a limp-caller's range. There will be Jacks in there, but there are far more and far weaker hands in that range. Suited connectors, small pocket pairs, two high cards, etc. Weaker hands make up a far greater proportion of this range than stronger hands. The dry nature of the board also means that there are very few draws. There are no flush draws, few reasonable straight draws and the only high card is the weakest of the paint cards.
If you don't c-bet boards like this you will find it very difficult to ever c-bet without a hand. Since we miss the flop more often than we hit it ourselves, failing to c-bet boards like this will result in us losing money from our pre-flop raises with unpaired hole cards. Failing to c-bet when you miss makes you very predictable and very exploitable.
On this board we will get folds from coniderably more than 50% of our opponent's likely range, however we must note that we don't in fact need to fold out that high a proportion of his hands. When we c-bet half-pot we only need to fold out one third of his hands for the c-bet to be break even. Any greater success rate than that results in a long-term profit.
Since we know that our opponents are likely to miss the flop two thirds of the time, limp-callers aren't likely to be holding strong pre-flop hands and this flop contains few draws and only one high card, we can see that a c-bet on this type of flop should be extremely lucrative.
The thing to remember, is you want people to call with worse hands for as many chips as possible. To give two examples at both ends of the scale, if you raise 2x with JJ and he calls with 56s, great for him, he get's a really cheap chance to outdraw you, imagine you raised 20x and he still calls, he is putting in an enormous amount of chips with a very small chance of winning the hand.
We're never gonna raise 20x but the point is, when we have hands that completely crush the opponents hand, we want them to put in as much as possible. If you knew he had 56s and could have got it in pre with JJ, you would have wouldn't ya? So be happy when he wants to call bigger raises with it
FWIW, again in the first hand AQ is crushing QJ, if he's limp/calling with that hand, then you're likely to be dominating him SO much with AQ so we want to get as many chips in as possible while we're a big favourite. Good c-bet, well played for realising you just need to give up on the hand.
The basic idea of it is that you take the moment when most of the money goes in, work out your equity against the opponent's hand and then work out how much of the pot you "deserve" to win. It will help you to see that, actually, even when we get the money in as a big favourite, we don't win as much as we think. For example:
We have KK pre-flop. There are no blinds or rake (to make things easy) and our opponent shoves all-in for £100 with A2. Naturally we call and are a 70% favourite. The pot is £200.
£200 x 70% = £140
Of the £200 in the middle, £140 of it is "ours". Take away our £100 investment and we make a profit of £40.
We've put £100 into the pot as almost as big a favourite as we possibly can and we only deserve to win £40 and not £100. So sometimes we lose the pot and sometimes we win the pot but we ALWAYS win £40 in Sklansky dollars.
I don't know if that helps to understand how thin your edge is. You can't get it in as a much bigger favourite than 70% and you still don't win as much as you might think. That seems to be something you struggle with. The problem you're having with MTT's seems to be based on the idea that you "deserve" to win the whole pot when you get it in good but you really don't.
MTT's are described as high variance because you need to survive all the spots you get it in behind or in a flip AND you need to survive all the spots you get it in ahead. Only one person can win a tournament and only roughly 10% get anything back. You just can't expect to get results in MTT's. Good players will go dozens or more MTT's without winning a bean while they watch awful players win thousands. That's just how they work. in the long-term though, the good players win and the bad ones lose. The long-term just happens to mean thousands upon thousands of games.
Don't adjust how you're playing if you're making people put money in the pot with the worst hand. That's all the game is really about.
Of course it's important to remember that the difference between good players and not-so-good players isn't in their big hands and big pots - We all get as many big hands as each other. The difference is in the small pots and the weak hands. So if you're only playing big pre-flop hands it will be tough for you to win. I don't know if that's a problem you have but I don't see too many clinic posts from you holding non-premium hands. Maybe that's just coincidence, though.
...apart from the first bit. Don't know why Lambert's agreeing with my incoherent ramblings. lol