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30NL - QQ facing a 4bet

Lambert180Lambert180 Member Posts: 12,197
edited March 2013 in The Poker Clinic
No reads on villian, haven't long sat down and not seen him before, although have spotted he's playing a fair few tables (doesn't give much info granted).

Zero point 5betting here imo so it's flat/fold.

I would have been happy to continue on some flops but that is a flop where he's very likely to either have me beat with TP, already ahead with KK or caught up with JJ.

Flop is an easy fold but we're fine to flat the 4bet pre... right??
PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
hipshooter Small blind   £0.15 £0.15 £36.59
Lambert180 Big blind   £0.30 £0.45 £32.94
  Your hole cards
  • Q
  • Q
     
X Raise   £0.90 £1.35 £45.67
ACEGOONER Call   £0.90 £2.25 £29.55
DOHHHHHHH Fold        
NemesisN1 Fold        
hipshooter Fold        
Lambert180 Raise   £3.00 £5.25 £29.94
X Raise   £7.20 £12.45 £38.47
ACEGOONER Fold        
Lambert180 Call   £4.80 £17.25 £25.14
Flop
   
  • 5
  • J
  • A
     
Lambert180 Check        
X Bet   £9.00 £26.25 £29.47
Lambert180 Fold        
X Muck        
X Win   £16.38   £45.85
X Return   £9.00 £0.87 £54.85
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Comments

  • 10NGY10NGY Member Posts: 108
    edited March 2013
    I don't play any 30nl but I think most people wouldn't 4-bet any less than JJ+. The thing is if this is a low board how would you progress? say if it was a 8/9 high flop? Just interested.
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  • Lambert180Lambert180 Member Posts: 12,197
    edited March 2013
    Well I'm readless but gotta put him on a relatively strong range to open UTG and then 4bet. I'd imagine his range for 4betting is potentially along the lines of TT+, AK, maybe AQ and he may have some light 4bets in his range but obv don't know him so will discount them for now.

    I'm a marginal favourite against the above range and have already put money in the pot, so I'm calling £4.80 to win £12.45 where I should be a slight favourite. I'm still a favourite if we remove AQ from that range, and only a very marginal underdog if we remove TT from it too.

    (sigh, I've kinda answered my own question from the OP in this reply now lol)

    If it comes 249 or w/e, then I'll peel a bet and re-assess.
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  • 10NGY10NGY Member Posts: 108
    edited March 2013
    I thought you might! aha
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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH Member Posts: 17,929
    edited March 2013
    In Response to 30NL - QQ facing a 4bet:
    No reads on villian, haven't long sat down and not seen him before, although have spotted he's playing a fair few tables (doesn't give much info granted). Zero point 5betting here imo so it's flat/fold. I would have been happy to continue on some flops but that is a flop where he's very likely to either have me beat with TP, already ahead with KK or caught up with JJ. Flop is an easy fold but we're fine to flat the 4bet pre... right?? Player Action Cards Amount Pot Balance hipshooter Small blind   £0.15 £0.15 £36.59 Lambert180 Big blind   £0.30 £0.45 £32.94   Your hole cards Q Q       X Raise   £0.90 £1.35 £45.67 ACEGOONER Call   £0.90 £2.25 £29.55 DOHHHHHHH Fold         NemesisN1 Fold         hipshooter Fold         Lambert180 Raise   £3.00 £5.25 £29.94 X Raise   £7.20 £12.45 £38.47 ACEGOONER Fold         Lambert180 Call   £4.80 £17.25 £25.14 Flop     5 J A       Lambert180 Check         X Bet   £9.00 £26.25 £29.47 Lambert180 Fold         X Muck         X Win   £16.38   £45.85 X Return   £9.00 £0.87 £54.85
    Posted by Lambert180

    Why?

    Readless 3b/5b or just flat as he's opened utg.
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  • BorinLonerBorinLoner Member Posts: 3,863
    edited March 2013
    It's probably optimistic to think he 4-bets AQ, JJ or TT in position against an unknown 3-better in the blinds.

    I like the 3-bet if we think he's calling with worse, which most players will. So as a default I like the 3-bet when we're readless. After being 4-bet readless, I think we should assume he's tight and has a very narrow range until we see evidence to the contrary. i.e. Until we get some reads.

    In future don't 3-bet his early position opens until we see what he's opening with in early position.

    I agree with DOHHHHHHH that we don't want to be 3-bet-calling with QQ without reads. So either flat the open or 3-bet to get it in 100BB deep. I prefer flatting for the reasons above.
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