4 way pot...call or raise river bet?

devonfish5

Amount	Pot	Balance
pokered456	Small blind		£0.02	£0.02	£1.59
D4ngerousD	Big blind		£0.04	£0.06	£3.96
	Your hole cards	5 5
devonfish5	Call		£0.04	£0.10	£8.75
mum1	Call		£0.04	£0.14	£2.55
HugeTuna	Raise		£0.20	£0.34	£10.71
WULLIE165	Fold
pokered456	Call		£0.18	£0.52	£1.41
D4ngerousD	Fold
devonfish5	Call		£0.16	£0.68	£8.59
mum1	Call		£0.16	£0.84	£2.39
Flop
		10 5 10
pokered456	Check
devonfish5	Check
mum1	Check
HugeTuna	Bet		£0.42	£1.26	£10.29
pokered456	Call		£0.42	£1.68	£0.99
devonfish5	Call		£0.42	£2.10	£8.17
mum1	Call		£0.42	£2.52	£1.97
Turn
		6
pokered456	Check
devonfish5	Check
mum1	Check
HugeTuna	Check
River
		7
pokered456	All-in		£0.99	£3.51	£0.00
devonfish5	Raise		£4.37	£7.88	£3.80
mum1	Fold
HugeTuna	Fold
devonfish5	Unmatched bet		£3.38	£4.50	£7.18
pokered456	Show	10 A
devonfish5	Show	5 5
devonfish5	Win	Full House, 5s and 10s	£4.16		£11.34

devonfish5

i know i'm going to be told off for not raising turn,or flop
(looking back,that's where i should have been building pot,isn't it?
but with such a big hand
i'm pretty sure i'm good on river and my instinct was to 'get it in'
but i lost value here,didn't i?

rancid

raise pre
flop is ok
you gotta bet turn

maybe just flat river

CraigSG1

Flop is fine. 

Have to, have to, have to bet turn as you have to know at least one has a 10! Get value!

River - reshove is fine. If you assume someone has a ten then its very likely that its a A10, K10, Q10, J10, 109 none of which improved to a better FH and most if not all will find it impossibly to fold.

devonfish5

In Response to Re: 4 way pot...call or raise river bet?:

raise pre flop is ok you gotta bet turn maybe just flat river
Posted by rancid

thanks rancid
yeah,gotta get used to bettin these hands i guess,
once the other 2 folded on river after my all-in, i knew it was a mistake...silly boy.

devonfish5

In Response to Re: 4 way pot...call or raise river bet?:

Flop is fine.  Have to, have to, have to bet turn as you have to know at least one has a 10! Get value! River - reshove is fine. If you assume someone has a ten then its very likely that its a A10, K10, Q10, J10, 109 none of which improved to a better FH and most if not all will find it impossibly to fold.
Posted by CraigSG1

again,i'm finding it hard betting these big hands.
u r right i should have at least bet turn.
(gotta start putting players on a hand range as u say A 10,K 10,etc.)
thanks

seppe

Raise the flop, bet the turn & then your in prime position for getting all the monies on the river, its all about building that pot

Edit:  also raise it up pre, we all know how bad limping is lol

BorinLoner

Yep, raise it up pre-flop. You wouldn't limp with AA so why are you limping with 55? You're just capping your range and denying yourself the chance of winning the pot pre-flop. Raise and you build the pot pre-flop so there's more to win the times you hit your set and you can win that pot with a c-bet on the flop, if you get it heads-up. 

Playing out of position is also going to make it much tougher to stack your opponents post-flop in limped pots. You will find that the times you hit you're likely to just get a small amount more. In the long-term it's tough to break even doing this, let alone make a profit.

As it happens, I quite like the way you've played it post flop. I don't agree with the suggestion of betting the turn because it's tough to see how HugeTuna can call wihout a Ten and if he does have a Ten he's likely to bet anyway. He might call with an overpair that he wouldn't bet but I'm not sure how likely that is after he's been called on such a dry flop by three players. (That said, we shouldn't expect our opponents to play perfectly. I prefer the check, though)

There's no reason to worry about the other two because their stacks are smaller than the pot and we can just set them both in on the river if the turn is checked around. only HugeTuna is worth thinking about.

On the river, I'd prefer a call to possibly allow one of the players behind to call with a random pair. They're not folding a Ten, in all likelihood, but a pocket pair, 6 or 7 is a trivial fold once you shove.

devonfish5

In Response to Re: 4 way pot...call or raise river bet?:

Raise the flop, bet the turn & then your in prime position for getting all the monies on the river, its all about building that pot Edit:  also raise it up pre, we all know how bad limping is lol
Posted by seppe

thanks seppe,
yes,i'm still not playing aggressively enough all of the time,as i've shown here,but i am trying hard.
with 55 it's easy just to call p/f but i know i have to get out of the habit,and build that pot so that when i do hit big,like here i get max value.

dev

devonfish5

In Response to Re: 4 way pot...call or raise river bet?:

Yep, raise it up pre-flop. You wouldn't limp with AA so why are you limping with 55? You're just capping your range and denying yourself the chance of winning the pot pre-flop. Raise and you build the pot pre-flop so there's more to win the times you hit your set and you can win that pot with a c-bet on the flop, if you get it heads-up.  Playing out of position is also going to make it much tougher to stack your opponents post-flop in limped pots. You will find that the times you hit you're likely to just get a small amount more. In the long-term it's tough to break even doing this, let alone make a profit. As it happens, I quite like the way you've played it post flop. I don't agree with the suggestion of betting the turn because it's tough to see how HugeTuna can call wihout a Ten and if he does have a Ten he's likely to bet anyway. He might call with an overpair that he wouldn't bet but I'm not sure how likely that is after he's been called on such a dry flop by three players. (That said, we shouldn't expect our opponents to play perfectly. I prefer the check, though) There's no reason to worry about the other two because their stacks are smaller than the pot and we can just set them both in on the river if the turn is checked around. only HugeTuna is worth thinking about. On the river, I'd prefer a call to possibly allow one of the players behind to call with a random pair. They're not folding a Ten, in all likelihood, but a pocket pair, 6 or 7 is a trivial fold once you shove.
Posted by BorinLoner

thanks borin,
i do most of the time raise most hands i play p/f just not all of them,i guess.
old habbits and all that.  lol
i knew i should have just called the river bet but in the heat of the moment i just felt getting it in was the best play,as i was either getting called or both players were folding anyway.
anyway,i'll try better next time,
thanks mate,

dev

Lambert180

Devon, you should get some post it notes, or you can use that whiteboard you got and just put a few important notes on there and keep it by your side so its always in your mind, like...

1. When I am first into the pot, I WILL open 3x !!

You can change that to 4x, or 5x depending on what your standard open is, but stick to it! If you are sat there with a hand thinking, urgh I dont wanna put 3x in with this hand, then just fold. If it aint good enough to raise, it aint good enough to play full stop.

devonfish5

In Response to Re: 4 way pot...call or raise river bet?:

Im happy to call here preflop to set mine no point raising imo  On the flop i am raising here for value as any 10 will call and any pairs will call your raise  on the turn i am 100 percent betting  these kinda hands dont come around often m8 so make the most of it u wanna try n get as much money as u can think u kinda played it to passive winning a small pot rather then a big 1 
Posted by IDONKCALLU

thanks steve,
i'm always afraid of betting and losing customers when i flop a big hand like this,which i know is the wrong way of thinking.
stil gotta lot to learn. 
aaaagh

dev

devonfish5

In Response to Re: 4 way pot...call or raise river bet?:

Devon, you should get some post it notes, or you can use that whiteboard you got and just put a few important notes on there and keep it by your side so its always in your mind, like... 1. When I am first into the pot, I WILL open 3x !! You can change that to 4x, or 5x depending on what your standard open is, but stick to it! If you are sat there with a hand thinking, urgh I dont wanna put 3x in with this hand, then just fold. If it aint good enough to raise, it aint good enough to play full stop.
Posted by Lambert180

yes of course you are right here Paul,
but with hands like 55 33 etc,i sometimes forget to raise and my old way of playing,(and still now sometimes),kicks in and i limp,like here.
good idea of making a note on my whiteboard about raising EVERY TIME 3x or more...
just have to find room on there somewhere in between Dohhhhs notes.  lol
thanks for the tip,

dev
ps; always bet 3x min if 1st into pot.(added to whiteboard)  lol