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Thoughts please.
jonjo75
Member Posts: 999
On a final table of a BH last night. Have not played with this guy before and had no real reads on opponent but they had been limping on the button and making a few unconventional plays but I had not seen many showdowns so no realiable info.
What are your thoughts on the hand in general but I am interested on what do you do on the river?
Is this a good spot to jam repping the Ace or maybe your'e just ahead?
Flat hoping he has .....?
Fold and still have a 35+ BB stack?
PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalanceXSmall blind 2000.002000.00263163.25darsum333Big blind 4000.006000.0036169.00 Your hole cards10J jonjo75Raise 8000.0014000.00178775.50Baccus00Fold XCall 6000.0020000.00257163.25darsum333Fold Flop 58J XBet 8000.0028000.00249163.25jonjo75Raise 21000.0049000.00157775.50XCall 13000.0062000.00236163.25Turn 6 XBet 8000.0070000.00228163.25jonjo75Call 8000.0078000.00149775.50River A XBet 40000.00118000.00188163.25
What are your thoughts on the hand in general but I am interested on what do you do on the river?
Is this a good spot to jam repping the Ace or maybe your'e just ahead?
Flat hoping he has .....?
Fold and still have a 35+ BB stack?
PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalanceXSmall blind 2000.002000.00263163.25darsum333Big blind 4000.006000.0036169.00 Your hole cards10J jonjo75Raise 8000.0014000.00178775.50Baccus00Fold XCall 6000.0020000.00257163.25darsum333Fold Flop 58J XBet 8000.0028000.00249163.25jonjo75Raise 21000.0049000.00157775.50XCall 13000.0062000.00236163.25Turn 6 XBet 8000.0070000.00228163.25jonjo75Call 8000.0078000.00149775.50River A XBet 40000.00118000.00188163.25
Comments
I don't think we should be raising a marginal hand in this situation.
On the turn, when he donks small again, what range are we giving him? On the river, which is actually a rationally-sized bet, what range do we give him?
It's really tough to see that we can beat any value hand that he's betting like this so, as NColley says, if we call we're bluff-catching. Whether we can turn our hand into a bluff depends entirely on what we think of his range on previous streets. The way it's played, I doubt he can be holding any better hand that we can force him to fold, so call to bluff-catch or fold. Probably fold unless we have experience of him taking this weird line with air or junk made hands.
Don't raise the flop and call him down if we think he's donking light. There are too few draws to protect against to allow us to value raise with JT.
I flat called in the end and he had QJ. I new I had played it badly and let it play on my mind a bit and went out a little while after.
Thanks for the replys.
Yeah you are more than likely right. The flop raise was a bad play.
Do you fold the river?
I don't think you'd be asking if you could bluff-raise the river if you hadn't seen he was holding QJ. From the way it's played, I think it's likely that your opponent believed he had the best hand on the flop and turn. If you therefore make that range entirely hands that beat JT, I don't think he actually folds many of them to a river shove. He would probably fold QJ or KJ but the rest of his range is two-pair or better and that's not going anywhere.
If he didn't have the best hand on the flop or turn, then we don't need to raise the river. We can just call him down.
Turn is where it gets difficult. He's called your reraise and the 6 on the turn you've appreciated hits his range of straight draw type hands so calling on the turn is appropriate. I maybe reraise again here with intention of check/folding middling/flushing cards on the river.
Ace on the river doesnt add to straights or flushes. Not worried too much about one pair because otherwise he's called a reraise on flop with Ax. Could be a very cheesy two pair?
As played I think you have to call, he could easily have A5spades, or something like 75 which you beat. Marginal though. Let us know what happened!
Why would we want to "reassert your dominance and aggression in the hand" by raising the flop? What's the value of retaking the betting lead on this flop? If all we achieve is to make weaker hands fold while being called by better hands, then raising the flop has a negative value for us.
The 6 on the turn only fills a flopped double-gut-shot straight draw with 79 and we shouldn't be worried about such a narrow range of hands. It may make some funky two-pair hand but that's still a very narrow range and we'd have to think that our opponent had donk-bet and then called a raise with bottom pair or second pair with a 6 kicker.
The question again would seem to be what value is there in raising the turn? We need to think that we're going to be called by weaker hands or can fold out better ones. I don't see many weaker hands that can call a raise here and it's tough to think we can make many better hands fold. If we raise the turn, considering the size of the pot, I think we're committing ourselves with a marginal hand.
I don't understand why you'd think our opponent might play 75 this way but even if that's in his range, we have to beat roughly a quarter of that range to break even. Since this is a tournament, we realistically need to beat significantly more than this for the call to be correct. I think we struggle to beat 25% of oppo's range unless we have history to suggest that he is very bluffy, taking weird lines.
I still think reraising flop is OK though. Its possibly cheaper to reraise flop/turn in the way that he did than to call a BB down, who is a big stack in the final table of the tourney, because if he just calls down he would have to call a value bet on the river.
Read the hand for a busted straight draw and player X made it look great so well done whoever it was because if it were me I would have gone broke!