Floating the basics and when is it a good time?

The_Don90

Ok so opponent in this hand is a regular of this level. Reasonably capable, never seen them get to out of line, and capable of folding. 

So I'm trying to add a little extra to my game. Floating is something ive never done alot of, but having spoke to better players, so many of them suggest it as a useful tool. 

So i tried it out. I'd like thoughts on the situation and how i go about it. Even more so my sizing - i sized it slightly below an all in to make it look like im valueing, in hindsight i think this is a mistake but again would like thoughts.

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
x	Small blind		£0.05	£0.05	£10.00
The_Don90	Big blind		£0.10	£0.15	£11.72
	Your hole cards	7 9
obclead	Fold
Cash_Daddy	Fold
reap_sow	Fold
DelBoy8619	Fold
x	Raise		£0.25	£0.40	£9.75
The_Don90	Call		£0.20	£0.60	£11.52
Flop
		9 A K
x	Bet		£0.30	£0.90	£9.45
The_Don90	Call		£0.30	£1.20	£11.22
Turn
		3
x	Bet		£1.20	£2.40	£8.25
The_Don90	Call		£1.20	£3.60	£10.02
River
		6
x	Bet		£2.00	£5.60	£6.25
The_Don90	Raise		£5.00	£10.60	£5.02

Wilhelm

Here are my thoughts. 

I think the 3 on the turn is a bad card for our opponent to fire two barrels on, therefore it is a bad card for us to float on.  Given your read on the opponent I would assume that we can read his pot bet for strength, so I think we can fold and move on to the next hand.

W

Lambert180

Agree with Will,

bad card for him to barrel and if he's a competent oppo, he'll know this.

Also, people may disagree but I think it's just a bad flop to float on full stop.

While you're river raise could arguably be said to look strong cos it looks like it's begging for a call, on the other side it's giving them a great price to call.

What other hands (value hands) would you take this line with?

GREGHOGG

If you are going to do this surely you need to jam the river, as u would surely jam with the Qh to get called by the Jh?

Also if you are going to call the flop, probably raise the turn on that board, As then u can decide to jam or check back the river if they just flat. 

As a rule tho, and I have learnt to my cost in the past, prob a bad idea to float/over complicate things at 10nl Just about betting for value innit. Maybe try some moves higher up for the lolz when you are taking shots

huuuuume

think there are better boards to float.  you'd be better off finding a spot where you think they have missed the flop and are just auto cbetting but with the board being AK high this just isn't a spot where their range misses often enough imo.

F_Ivanovic

Just looks like clicking buttons. Whilst this move may work in a vacuum, players will soon start to get suspicious and these moves are just going to cost you money.

The general idea of floating is that you want to be making the play when an opponent is c-betting too much and then giving up on turns/rivers too much. You also want to make the play on boards that don't hit their range. So for example if they raise up in early position and the flop is 578 and they c-bet, you can decide to float and take it away from them on the turn. 

Obviously you don't want to float too much because opponents will work out what you're doing and might adjust. (They could start c/c turns with hands instead of betting them, or they could just bet turns themselves more to fold out your floats) but if you float every now and again you can pick up some decent pots fairly easily.

If you want to float the flop and the turn you need to be sure that your opponent is betting flop and turn a lot of the time (and ofc they have a wide range pre meaning they can often have nothing OTT). Also if you do float flop and turn you might have to make thin value bets/raises OTR because if you're not making thin value bets then when you suddenly bet river big or make a river raise you might not be believed.

BorinLoner

+1 to F_Ivanovic and huuuuume

This is a bad flop to float. Even if you think your opponent has a weak range for raising BvB pre-flop, you aren't repping a strong hand when you flat this flop. Presumably you'd raise the draw if you had it too. So when you flat the flop you figure to only have a marginal hand. You can't now represent the flush when it hits.

That said, if he checks the turn you can likely bet and take it away. A blank turn is better than a heart for you, in those circumstances. If he has nothing, it's really hard for him to call even if your line doesn't make sense. That's not really thinking too much about ranges and your opponent's habits etc. Without specific reads it's just hoping that he checks. We like to have good plans rather than hopeful ones.

Not much else to add to others' posts.

The_Don90

Thanks all. 

Ms_Chips

Your read on the player is probably the most important factor when it comes tro floating. You should be looking for players who either cbet way too much and players that play straightforwardly afte the turn. You want to stay away from people that double barrell because you will have to fold the turn too often. If they are playing straighforwadly on the turn though and telegraphs the strength of their range by either checking or betting, then these are the players that you can put a ton of pressure on and make fold in later streets. Make sure that when you float though, that you have some equity in the pot and havr some backdoor draws for you to continue on the turn and for this reason, that example you showed isn't the best spot and even worse because your OOP. You should only be doing it IP. Floating the CO when your on the BTN is when you will manage to pull it off the most. 

Say we have a flop of A4s6c and your holding 78c with a gutshot and a backdoor flush and will be able to call the turn too if a 9 lands. Depending on how good the villain is at hand reading and their aggression at the river, we will sometimes be able to call a 7 or an 8 on the turn too. But if they are really aggressive they will then take away our option to bluff the river or even see a free showdown.

Great spots to float are on Axx & Kxx flops since the villain will be c-betting with almost, if not all of tehir range and will give up on the turn if a card below a 10 comes and their hand isn't improving. That's a lot of turn cards for you to win the pot. For example....

Say we flat the CO on the BTN with JTd... flop Ad92c... he 2/3's and we decide to float. The Q & 8 diamonds with give us 8 more outs allowing us to call another bet. If a J or 10 come we should be able to call again if we reckon that their double barrelling light. If teh villain check calls a turn club and isn't ocer tricky, I would bet the river again because their range is likely a pair with a club that will fold to a river bet. If their capable of check-calling the turn with 9x or TT-KK, fire the river again. You will take down the pot the maority of the time. If your the type of player to give up on a good spot, don't float the flop or you will be just burning money. 

One final and very important thing to remember is that we don't have to take down every pot. Sometimes there is absolutely nothing we can do and just have to fold. It doesn't make you a bad player. Being good means making the best play with the greatest EV and sometimes we maximise our EV by folding.