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30NL - Turned the Wheel, River Completes Flush - B/F? Sizing?

Lambert180Lambert180 Member Posts: 12,197
edited April 2013 in The Poker Clinic
Do we have to b/f this river and if we're b/f then have I gone too big?

I made my sizing, then thought a split second after, 'if I get shipped on, I've only got £14 left and the pot will be £45 so can't fold'.

Should I have went smaller so I can fold? Or are we definitely just b/c here anyway?
PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
Lambert180 Small blind   £0.15 £0.15 £29.55
fara Big blind   £0.30 £0.45 £7.90
stien Sit out        
  Your hole cards
  • A
  • 2
     
X Call   £0.30 £0.75 £83.23
Lambert180 Raise   £1.05 £1.80 £28.50
fara Fold        
X Call   £0.90 £2.70 £82.33
Flop
   
  • 5
  • 10
  • 3
     
Lambert180 Bet   £1.50 £4.20 £27.00
X Call   £1.50 £5.70 £80.83
Turn
   
  • 4
     
Lambert180 Bet   £3.90 £9.60 £23.10
X Call   £3.90 £13.50 £76.93
River
   
  • K
     
Lambert180 Bet   £8.50 £22.00 £14.60
           
           
           
           
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Comments

  • bearlytherbearlyther Member Posts: 1,757
    edited April 2013
    Id prob go around £4.89 make sure i get paid by his A10 type hands
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  • LOL_RAISELOL_RAISE Member Posts: 2,188
    edited April 2013
    i think preflop is close to a fold, b/f river
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  • Lambert180Lambert180 Member Posts: 12,197
    edited April 2013
    In Response to Re: 30NL - Turned the Wheel, River Completes Flush - B/F? Sizing?:
    i think preflop is close to a fold, b/f river
    Posted by LOL_RAISE
    Do you think I went too big to b/f though? Do we wanna go a tad smaller if we intend to fold to a raise so we don't end up pricing ourselves in or is this sizing fine?
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  • BorinLonerBorinLoner Member Posts: 3,863
    edited April 2013
    You make it hard for a guy to get off the forum, Lambert...

    Why do you think you can't fold the river for £14 into £45? Pot odds are 3:1, so you need to beat 25% of his range. Do you think you beat 25% of his range?

    No = Fold
    Yes = Call

    If you don't think 25% of the hands he's raising with on the river are worse than the wheel, you're not priced in. So does he bluff here, given your line? Does he raise worse value hands after the flush comes in?

    EDIT: I'd definitely fold pre-flop, bet bigger on the turn and bet smaller on the river. I'm assuming you don't need an essay explaining why.
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  • Lambert180Lambert180 Member Posts: 12,197
    edited April 2013
    To get max value Donk? As played, I think he has more hands that I beat than he does flushes.

    After BL's post, I think he's covered it, I'm not committed to calling a shove at all unless I can beat 25% of his range for shipping the river, and I don't think I do so I'm going for the max when he has hands to flat with and I can still fold to a shove.

    £5 is good too to guarantee a call, but misses value I think cos he should have alore more worse hands than me than he does flushes.

    FWIW, he had KTo and flatted
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  • Lambert180Lambert180 Member Posts: 12,197
    edited April 2013
    Yeah I agree to a point, and in game at the time of playing this hand I probably would have sigh called it off  cos I thought I left myself committed but that's why I posted this.

    Like I thought that my bet left me committed but I now know that I wasn't committed, depending on the range he will ship with. He could re-ship with sets but don't think there are many sets he'd play like this
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  • Chrissy_CChrissy_C Member Posts: 13
    edited April 2013
    Definitely bet smaller, like Bearlyther and donk said i'd be going around £5 to get value from his 10's and almost always folding to a raise with how the hand played.
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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH Member Posts: 17,929
    edited April 2013

    think it's fine. 

    If you've decided ur 100% bet/folding just pick the size that maximizes value, any size rly, go w/ what feels right, dw about it. 


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  • Lambert180Lambert180 Member Posts: 12,197
    edited April 2013
    A few have mentioned it... is it really such an easy fold pre???

    We're only 3 handed (1 is sat out), ok we're OOP but we're 3 handed with Ax, the 2 players are both weak imo and the first one has chosen to open limp the BTN, surely we can't just make up, and we can't just open fold?
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  • YOUNG_GUNYOUNG_GUN Member Posts: 8,948
    edited April 2013
    3 bet more pre or fold :)

    I dont understand why such a small 3 bet when we have a weak ace and we are oop

    I would of bet £6 , planned to fold but obv call in game :P
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  • Lambert180Lambert180 Member Posts: 12,197
    edited April 2013
    It's not a 3bet, he's limped. I'm isolating a limper, and will generally always go 4x to iso a limper. He's gone 30p, I've gone £1.20 total.
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  • rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,945
    edited April 2013
    wouldn't worry about the amount your b/f because mr limper is not going to exploit you by shoving )

    like what Dohhh says - if you b/f then decide amount based on various factors, but just b/f -

    £6.70 sound good )


    iso pre oop with A2 isn't the greatest - but if your iso oop then the hand really doesn't matter -
    But you should be iso a depolarising range more so than a polarised one in this spot



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  • STEALSSTEALS Member Posts: 2
    edited April 2013
    hi guys.

    Doesn't betting 2/3 on flop and turn then under 1/2 pot on river look weak and possible u are scared of flush . 

    Betting £8.50 on river consistent 2/3 pot leaving £14.10 behind looks like you cant fold therefore surly if opponent shuvs we can put him on flush and fold.

    if im opponent i call £8.50 on river with all 2 pair hands shuv with flush. if u bet £5 with £18.10 i feel u have fold equity and may consider reppin flush by shuvin.

    is it not better to bet bigger knowing we get value from 2 pair hands and only get shuved on by a flush.

    personally i hat betting smaller on river when scare card comes as always feel opponent will c this weakness and pounce

    thanks
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  • rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,945
    edited April 2013
    In Response to Re: 30NL - Turned the Wheel, River Completes Flush - B/F? Sizing?:
    hi guys. Doesn't betting 2/3 on flop and turn then under 1/2 pot on river look weak and possible u are scared of flush .  Betting £8.50 on river consistent 2/3 pot leaving £14.10 behind looks like you cant fold therefore surly if opponent shuvs we can put him on flush and fold. if im opponent i call £8.50 on river with all 2 pair hands shuv with flush. if u bet £5 with £18.10 i feel u have fold equity and may consider reppin flush by shuvin. is it not better to bet bigger knowing we get value from 2 pair hands and only get shuved on by a flush. personally i hat betting smaller on river when scare card comes as always feel opponent will c this weakness and pounce thanks
    Posted by STEALS
    Hi STEALS - first post welcome

    Do you really think that someone who flats btn will suddenly shove river as a bluff
    Does this oppo seem like a player that will ever pounce or see weakness:D

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  • GELDYGELDY Member Posts: 5,203
    edited April 2013
    In Response to Re: 30NL - Turned the Wheel, River Completes Flush - B/F? Sizing?:
    It's not a 3bet, he's limped. I'm isolating a limper, and will generally always go 4x to iso a limper. He's gone 30p, I've gone £1.20 total.
    Posted by Lambert180
    no variation depending on position?
    i.e 4x ip but 5x oop
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