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Fold Full house?

LARSON7LARSON7 Member Posts: 4,491
edited April 2013 in The Poker Clinic
This hand here, i wasn't 2 worried about the preflop raise, it was nothing at all.

When the flop comes i still think AJ is good a lot of the time here.

When i hit my full house im a bit concerned he is firing out, but call the pot sized bet. On the river it was looking more and more like an overpair, but felt I had to call, ok he could have hit a random Q x hand, but thought it was either on overpair, pair, or air, so thought i was good enough of the time to call here. Any thoughts on this hand how it played out/?
PoKerr2222 Small blind  £0.02 £0.02 £7.90
LARSON7 Big blind  £0.04 £0.06 £16.32
  Your hole cards
  • A
  • J
     
trojan57 Fold     
lyndsey118 Fold     
PoKerr2222 Raise  £0.10 £0.16 £7.80
LARSON7 Call  £0.08 £0.24 £16.24
Flop
   
  • 7
  • 7
  • 7
     
PoKerr2222 Bet  £0.18 £0.42 £7.62
LARSON7 Call  £0.18 £0.60 £16.06
Turn
   
  • J
     
PoKerr2222 Bet  £0.60 £1.20 £7.02
LARSON7 Call  £0.60 £1.80 £15.46
River
   
  • Q
     
PoKerr2222 Bet  £1.80 £3.60 £5.22
LARSON7 Call  £1.80 £5.40 £13.66
PoKerr2222 Show
  • K
  • K
   
LARSON7 Muck
  • A
  • J
   
PoKerr2222 Win Full House, 7s and Kings £4.99

Comments

  • BorinLonerBorinLoner Member Posts: 3,863
    edited April 2013

    Ignoring this particular hand for the time being, what is your 3-betting range against this opponent, blind versus blind?

  • Lambert180Lambert180 Member Posts: 12,197
    edited April 2013
    if you're calling a full pot bet on the river, you have to be right 33%+ of the time, and I don't think you will be against most opponents here.
  • BorinLonerBorinLoner Member Posts: 3,863
    edited April 2013
    In Response to Re: Fold Full house?:
    if you're calling a full pot bet on the river, you have to be right 33%+ of the time, and I don't think you will be against most opponents here.
    Posted by Lambert180
    You knew this, right?
  • LARSON7LARSON7 Member Posts: 4,491
    edited April 2013

    In Response to Re: Fold Full house?:

    Ignoring this particular hand for the time being, what is your 3-betting range against this opponent, blind versus blind?
    Posted by BorinLoner
    What do i need to 3 bet him here?

    My thoughts on this hand were, opponents been pretty quiet we had been playing for about 2 plus hours (quite a settled table after a couple of maniacs donated their money). In hindsight i would have played this hand totally differently. I hadn't really seen this opponent involved in many hands at all, apart from one where he won a nice pot with a full house over a trips.

    When he raises to 12p, I thought he prob has a decent enough hand, so i'm happy to call the raise, i don't really want to be 3betting a player that has been playing pretty tight. Also the 3 x raise didn't strike me as being a monster, it's the only time at this level i've seen such a min raise with such a big hand.

    When the flop comes down, and he bets, i'm thinking strong possibility it's a pocket pair, or Ace X hand. Maybe my mistake was peeling to see another card.

    However, when i hit my jack, i'm pretty sure I have the best hand (given it was such a small raise pre).

    I'm happy to check call it down, Queen on the river did not change much, unless it was AQ.

    Maybe this hand just plays itself? Or maybe i could of got away on the flop.

  • Lambert180Lambert180 Member Posts: 12,197
    edited April 2013
    In Response to Re: Fold Full house?:
    In Response to Re: Fold Full house? : You knew this, right?
    Posted by BorinLoner
    I did, honest lol. I dunno what to blame it on, malfunctioning brain
  • BorinLonerBorinLoner Member Posts: 3,863
    edited April 2013
    In Response to Re: Fold Full house?:
    In Response to Re: Fold Full house? : I did, honest lol. I dunno what to blame it on, malfunctioning brain
    Posted by Lambert180
    I completely believe this unconvincing assertion. :)
  • BorinLonerBorinLoner Member Posts: 3,863
    edited April 2013
    Larson, the size of your opponents' pre-flop raises shouldn't indicate to you the strength of their hand, unless you've seen particular patterns from them before. The fact that other players might raise bigger with their big hands at this level has no bearing on whether this guy would. Some players raise smaller with their big hands because they don't want to lose their action. Good players, as you know, will raise the same with all their hands.

    It's not that I think you should 3-bet here, I'm just wondering if you thought about it when the action came to you. Did you think about the range of hands that he could call your 3-bet with or did you just think "AJ is a decent hand and I have position. I'll see a flop." If it's the latter, then that's bad. If it's the former, then you should be able to answer all your questions for yourself.

    If you thought his opening range was fairly tight, so you chose not to 3-bet, then you should have a fairly good idea that he won't barrell three streets on a three-of-a-kind board without a good hand.
    If you think he doesn't call with worse than AJ and only 4-bets better or folds worse, then you should again think that he doesn't barrell three streets on this board with a weak hand.
    If you think he's loose, can make moves and can play weaker hands than AJ pre-flop, then you should probably 3-bet AJ because you can get lots of value from worse hands.

    Whatever type of opponent you're playing, you should realise that your Jack is only a bluff catcher on the river. You have to then ask whether your opponent can ever be bluffing. If he's a thinking player he'll know that players don't fold full houses very often and he won't be betting three streets for value with TT or worse on this board.
  • zingzing Member Posts: 333
    edited April 2013
    played fine
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