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Shall we just 5 bet fold KK

rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,945
edited April 2013 in The Poker Clinic

Just a thought.......

Think we can narrow down oppo's 6 bet range )
PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
rancid Small blind   £0.15 £0.15 £44.98
charsnow Big blind   £0.30 £0.45 £7.48
  Your hole cards
  • K
  • K
     
LV3DAGIFT Call   £0.30 £0.75 £15.60
X Raise   £1.20 £1.95 £47.81
Robbie16 Call   £1.20 £3.15 £34.92
NemesisN1 Call   £1.20 £4.35 £67.78
rancid Raise   £4.65 £9.00 £40.33
charsnow Fold        
LV3DAGIFT Fold        
X Raise   £7.20 £16.20 £40.61
Robbie16 Fold        
NemesisN1 Fold        
rancid Raise   £10.80 £27.00 £29.53
X All-in   £40.61 £67.61 £0.00
rancid
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Comments

  • The_Don90The_Don90 Member Posts: 9,814
    edited April 2013
    I dont think im folding. Can we ever 5b fold? 
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  • NannaSheNannaShe Member Posts: 30
    edited April 2013
    Its a tough one ive seen people 6 bet with AK or QQ so imo im calling this and getting ready to reload
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  • NColleyNColley Member Posts: 1,178
    edited April 2013
    You shouldn't even 5 bet if you were folding to the shove.

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  • rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,945
    edited April 2013
    In Response to Re: Shall we just 5 bet fold KK:
    You shouldn't even 5 bet if you were folding to the shove.
    Posted by NColley
    yeah - do I 5 bet small to unduce shove or flat 4 bet to keep range wider
    How do we view oppo 4 bet size

    fact that I consider 5 bet folding is purely because I'am thinking it actually narrows oppo 6 bet range ....espcially if oppo range is QQ+...think a fold is good given what I have to call...

    does anyone 6 bet less than QQ on Sky :S Even the most lag of regs would struggle to 6 bet QQ in this spot )




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  • Lambert180Lambert180 Member Posts: 12,197
    edited April 2013
    Pretty disgusting getting 6bet on Sky w/ KK tbh lol but yeh I'm 5betting to GII.

    Were you expecting him to flat a 5b w/ AK/QQ or just fold? If folding, then you're 5b bluffing innit

    Not sure many will flat 5bets at this level
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  • rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,945
    edited April 2013
    In Response to Re: Shall we just 5 bet fold KK:
    Pretty disgusting getting 6bet on Sky w/ KK tbh lol but yeh I'm 5betting to GII. Were you expecting him to flat a 5b w/ AK/QQ or just fold? If folding, then you're 5b bluffing innit Not sure many will flat 5bets at this level
    Posted by Lambert180
    Ya, strange situation - suppose it can boil down to what we think about oppo 4 bet size and how often this is going to be a bluff or worse that they continue with

    IDK it's all a bit yucky to think about flatting the 4 bet but due to sizing think it's doable

    Even though I am not 5 bet bluffing, still think it's +EV to now fold to the 6 bet - flames !!!
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  • NColleyNColley Member Posts: 1,178
    edited April 2013
    Villains 4 bet isn't all that big so maybe peel 4bet with a few combos of AA/KK, all combos of QQ/JJ/AKs. 5bet call the other combos of AA/KK. 


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  • LOL_RAISELOL_RAISE Member Posts: 2,188
    edited April 2013
    peel 4bet

    folding is never +ev fwiw
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  • rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,945
    edited April 2013
    In Response to Re: Shall we just 5 bet fold KK:
    peel 4bet folding is never +ev fwiw
    Posted by LOL_RAISE
    I should proabably concede to your superior knowledge but my thinking was that calling the 6 bet shove versus an assigned NARROW range of QQ+ would be slightly -EV and verus range of AA/KK it would be terribly -EV

    Still feel peeling 4 bet's is not great, allthough we are not 100bb deep I take your point onboard that it's better than 5 bet folding
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  • percival09percival09 Member Posts: 3,804
    edited April 2013
    In Response to Re: Shall we just 5 bet fold KK:
    In Response to Re: Shall we just 5 bet fold KK : I should proabably concede to your superior knowledge but my thinking was that calling the 6 bet shove versus an assigned NARROW range of QQ+ would be slightly -EV and verus range of AA/KK it would be terribly -EV Still feel peeling 4 bet's is not great, allthough we are not 100bb deep I take your point onboard that it's better than 5 bet folding
    Posted by rancid
    we're getting over 2/1 with kk, how is it slightly -ev vs QQ+? We have to call obv
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  • rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,945
    edited April 2013
    In Response to Re: Shall we just 5 bet fold KK:
    In Response to Re: Shall we just 5 bet fold KK : we're getting over 2/1 with kk, how is it slightly -ev vs QQ+? We have to call obv
    Posted by percival09
    Let's even say range is QQ/KK/AA so we like -£1 EV or something or lets say we even flipping at best
    worse is AA/KK which is -EV by a way

    don't think my EV calc is out but I stand corrected if someone wants to show it here

    was is it 29.81 to win 27 <----------unless I have this bit wroung :S

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  • bearlytherbearlyther Member Posts: 1,757
    edited April 2013
    5 bet folding kk would be a massive leak this is crazy. As Ncolley says why you 5 betting if your folding to the shove never ever folding
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  • rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,945
    edited April 2013
    In Response to Re: Shall we just 5 bet fold KK:
    5 bet folding kk would be a massive leak this is crazy. As Ncolley says why you 5 betting if your folding to the shove never ever folding
    Posted by bearlyther

    Is it really though, far enough questioning why 5 bet if I am going to fold :S Does seem a bit silly )

    If we say oppo 4 range is wider than 6 bet range and 6 bet range is super narrow AA/KK then I must ask myself why do I 5 bet fold <---- kinda makes sense right

    FWIW I never folded - but I suppose my question is "why should I peel 4 bet and not 5 bet if I think oppo 6 bet range is KK/AA"



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