30NL - Line Check + River Decision?

Lambert180

Villian is very good, very laggy reg.

I'm checking the flop because he knows I can 4bet light and 4bet a relatively wide value range V him and think I'll get paid off more allowing him to bluff, obv never raising flop. Check turn, let him barrel off.

River decision.... I think he checks back loads of value hands, although he probably spazzs and ships river if he doesn't think he has any chance of winning @ showdown.

What do we do?

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
Lambert180	Small blind		£0.15	£0.15	£36.65
X	Big blind		£0.30	£0.45	£68.82
	Your hole cards	K K
guernsey29	Fold
wolves88	Fold
EvilPingu	Fold
Lambert180	Raise		£0.60	£1.05	£36.05
X	Raise		£2.70	£3.75	£66.12
Lambert180	Raise		£6.30	£10.05	£29.75
X	Call		£4.05	£14.10	£62.07
Flop
		A 8 A
Lambert180	Check
X	Bet		£5.00	£19.10	£57.07
Lambert180	Call		£5.00	£24.10	£24.75
Turn
		10
Lambert180	Check
X	Check
River
		J

Wilhelm

I think we can mix it up here.  If we bet, our line looks bluffy, we might hero us with 1 pair (probably not but we can hope).

As you say, if he can't win, he has to bet. 

However way you play it, I don't hate it that much. 

Edit: What value hands is he checking back the turn with?  Probbaly not an A, right?

Edit: Is there a chance we can bet small and he can jam as a bluff, or does this not happen?

Edit: Did he have JJ?

rancid

what do u beat that calls - not much )


QxQh

Saying that QQ probs not even in range


bet £6

Lambert180

He probably will check back an A seen as it's a 4flush board but think he would C/C an Ax. He probably bets w/ QQ (with the heart).

Against this oppo, yeh we probably can sometimes go small and induce a jam, but would have to go really small to let him think he had FE.

I'll post result a bit later.

Wilhelm

In Response to Re: 30NL - Line Check + River Decision?:

He probably will check back an A seen as it's a 4flush board but think he would C/C an Ax. He probably bets w/ QQ (with the heart). Against this oppo, yeh we probably can sometimes go small and induce a jam, but would have to go really small to let him think he had FE. I'll post result a bit later.
Posted by Lambert180

on the turn

I think we have to go quite small either way, like a 1/3 or less, or do you mean smaller?

Lambert180

In Response to Re: 30NL - Line Check + River Decision?:

what do u beat that calls - not much ) QxQh bet £6
Posted by rancid

Yeh QhQx.

I'm never bluffing small here, but I will be turning some hands into a bluff with a shove, so think if I ship I can get calls from Ax. He loves to hero call V me

rancid

In Response to Re: 30NL - Line Check + River Decision?:

He probably will check back an A seen as it's a 4flush board but think he would C/C an Ax. He probably bets w/ QQ (with the heart). Against this oppo, yeh we probably can sometimes go small and induce a jam, but would have to go really small to let him think he had FE. I'll post result a bit later.
Posted by Lambert180

Are you betting small to induce or to extract

What are you ranging pre to turn

Lambert180

Oh sorry Will, thought you asked what he'd check back on the river.

Sorry, gotta go out right now, will reply later but he's checking back some value hands for deception, some hands that have equity where he wants a free card (basically QhQx) and maybe giving up on some junk.

rancid

In Response to Re: 30NL - Line Check + River Decision?:

In Response to Re: 30NL - Line Check + River Decision? : Yeh QhQx. I'm never bluffing small here, but I will be turning some hands into a bluff with a shove, so think if I ship I can get calls from Ax. He loves to hero call V me
Posted by Lambert180

Well depends on the meta between you when oppo flats your 4 bet bvb ip - )

think oppo has polarised themselfs on turn here so easy b/f spot - IDK though u may even be best to shove

DOHHHHHHH

mbn to get there

fwiw now I've seen your hand I think u took the worst of 3/4 possible options. 

Although I did consider it might be 1 final desperate attempt to win the hand. 

River is normally the Qh

Also in b4 beaneh calls u a moron for for saying a 30nl reg is v good. 

And me a moron when he finds out I'm the bb

rancid

In Response to Re: 30NL - Line Check + River Decision?:

mbn to get there fwiw now I've seen your hand I think u took the worst of 3/4 possible options.  Although I did consider it might be 1 final desperate attempt to win the hand.  River is normally the Qh Also in b4 beaneh calls u a moron for for saying a 30nl reg is v good.  And me a moron when he finds out I'm the bb
Posted by DOHHHHHHH

Can't u be a fluffer and not a spolier )

just fold pre imo

Lambert180

Lol it's not a min raise pre, I'm in the SB so it's a raise to 75p. Should probably go to the full 3x, but just got in the habit of clicking it once so 75p total @ 30NL when multi-tabling cos it's easier than typing in 0.75 everytime in the box when playing 6-7 tables. Laziness really.

But this is the problem with Sky's betting system, it should be 'raise to X' not 'raise X' but meh, small detail.

Lambert180

In Response to Re: 30NL - Line Check + River Decision?:

mbn to get there fwiw now I've seen your hand I think u took the worst of 3/4 possible options.  Although I did consider it might be 1 final desperate attempt to win the hand.  River is normally the Qh Also in b4 beaneh calls u a moron for for saying a 30nl reg is v good.  And me a moron when he finds out I'm the bb
Posted by DOHHHHHHH

Was hoping you'd level yourself into a call

Nah if we'd got it in on the turn, then river would have been Qh Your equity doubles when we're all in

DOHHHHHHH

In Response to Re: 30NL - Line Check + River Decision?:

In Response to Re: 30NL - Line Check + River Decision? : Was hoping you'd level yourself into a call Nah if we'd got it in on the turn, then river would have been Qh Your equity doubles when we're all in
Posted by Lambert180

Wud make me a 156% favourite !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NColley

If doh is the oppo I'd bet the flop, he'll call at least once with any pair and he'll prob do some badly timed bluff with the other random stuff he peels the 4bet with cause hes dohhh and he likes to try and win everypot.

Lambert180

Cheers guys.

I've since been told by the villian what he had, I'll let him post it if he wants to but I shipped and he folded.

beaneh

betting flop reps more bluffs than c/c, just sayin yo.

Lambert180

In Response to Re: 30NL - Line Check + River Decision?:

betting flop reps more bluffs than c/c, just sayin yo.
Posted by beaneh

Definitely agree, but don't ya think C/C allows Doh to spak off more?

grantorino

Hate the small raise pre from sb. I consider flatting the 3bet as well

I prob bet flop.

Don't like river shove

Lambert180

In Response to Re: 30NL - Line Check + River Decision?:

Hate the small raise pre from sb. I consider flatting the 3bet as well I prob bet flop. Don't like river shove
Posted by grantorino

Do you hate it any less if you know I do it w/ 100% of my opening range? It's cos Sky's betting thing is 'Raise X amount' instead of 'Raise to X amount'. It's laziness really while multi-tabling to not manually type in 0.75 everytime I want to raise to 3x from the SB

There's a pretty aggro dynamic between me and villian, although guess I can flat 3b sometimes because he'd never expect me to flat a 3b w/ KK.

grantorino

Why would you think raising small is a good idea deep oop? I know it's just cos your lazy, but it doesn't seem a great idea to m e ESP against an aggro villain