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30nl, hit a piece in 3b pot then go into c/c mode. river decision?

DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH Member Posts: 17,929
edited April 2013 in The Poker Clinic

Opponent is a newish reg, must be a winner, but that doesn't say much @ this level.

It seems like he's one of the few that can adapt, he must put more thought in to his game than most regs at this level, but again, that doesn't say much.

Have seen him play really tight in some sessions, I guess when the tables warrented that style of play. The tables in this session were more 'reggy' though and he was playing looser and mixing it up, which suggests he's a decent thinking player.

Previously he'd been playing straight forward pre flop in 3bet pots, folding quite often and 4betting the standard range of QQ+ and AK, it was rare to have him peel.

Opening reasonably standard ranges from all positions so I thought a 3b v a cutoff open here w/ 74s is fine.

Flop a pair which is nice, and lead out for value and protectionnnn.

Turn is a blank.

I don't see much value in betting again here out of position, I think it's a c/c or a c/f, I think he has some floats and flushdraws that he might stab turn with expecting me to have given up.

Obv a couple of overpairs w/ TT/JJ. Not sure if he bets those though as he's prob wa/wb when I check the turn. 

Decide to call 1, is this a mistake?

River is a total blank again, and he sets me in.

It looks alot like I have ace king, I'm really tempted to call as I can obv beat all his bluffs, never taking this line w/ like 89s and I'm not sure he goes for stacks w/ TT/JJ either.

Don't think he set mines to 3bets w/ mini pairs when only 100xbb deep.

We looking @ 999, missed flushdraws, or total air?

Or am I being hopelessly optimistic and giving far too much credit again?

Usual image for me, he knows me well etc.
PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
EvilPingu Small blind  £0.15 £0.15 £27.60
DOHHHHHHH Big blind  £0.30 £0.45 £85.94
 Your hole cards
  • 7
  • 4
   
rancid Fold     
shawsok Fold     
xxx Raise  £0.90 £1.35 £31.35
Lambert180 Fold     
EvilPingu Fold     
DOHHHHHHH Raise  £3.00 £4.35 £82.94
xxx Call  £2.40 £6.75 £28.95
Flop
  
  • 9
  • 2
  • 7
   
DOHHHHHHH Bet  £3.60 £10.35 £79.34
xxxCall  £3.60 £13.95 £25.35
Turn
  
  • 5
   
DOHHHHHHH Check     
xxxBet  £7.50 £21.45 £17.85
DOHHHHHHH Call  £7.50 £28.95 £71.84
River
  
  • 6
   
DOHHHHHHH Check     
xxxAll-in  £17.85 £46.80 £0.00
DOHHHHHHH    ????  
 
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Comments

  • rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,945
    edited April 2013
    difficult but I think you have to fold )


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  • GELDYGELDY Member Posts: 5,203
    edited April 2013
    47H - Sam Grafton's bluff that went wrong at EPT Berlin this week!
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  • percival09percival09 Member Posts: 3,804
    edited April 2013
    snap that b 1tch off and let him show you 10Jcc

    are we polarising pre? assume he doesn't call that many 3bets? or are we just clicking b's oop?
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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH Member Posts: 17,929
    edited April 2013
    In Response to Re: 30nl, hit a piece in 3b pot then go into c/c mode. river decision?:
    snap that b 1tch off and let him show you 10Jcc are we polarising pre? assume he doesn't call that many 3bets? or are we just clicking b's oop?
    Posted by percival09
    "Previously he'd been playing straight forward pre flop in 3bet pots, folding quite often and 4betting the standard range of QQ+ and AK, it was rare to have him peel. 

    Opening reasonably standard ranges from all positions so I thought a 3b v a cutoff open here w/ 74s is fine."

    Yah
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  • grantorinograntorino Member Posts: 4,710
    edited April 2013
    Why do u think 74s is a good hand to 3b pre with

    Why are u betting the flop

    Have you seen enough hands to know he won't flat monsters pre, esp lp v blinds ip

    I think he prob should go for it all with stuff like JJ


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  • GREGHOGGGREGHOGG Member Posts: 7,155
    edited April 2013
    As if he is going to try to make you fold... He obv has a value hand... making you fold anything is impossible! :)
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  • huuuuumehuuuuume Member Posts: 569
    edited April 2013

    barrel the turn imo. 

    would be tempted then to barrel that river card too as it's so perfect considering the reads you have on villain

    as played fold the river - in a vacuum i dont think you'll be ahead of enough of the range we can assign to villain

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  • BorinLonerBorinLoner Member Posts: 3,863
    edited April 2013

    You think this guy's good so might he not realise that you're 3-betting him with junk, out of position? Do you think it sounds like a good idea to play junky hands out of position in bloated pots against good players?

    DOHHHHHHH, if you nit things up for a month or two you're going to absolutely clean up. :)

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  • TommyDTommyD Member Posts: 4,389
    edited April 2013
    I take it you were wearing a cape when you were playing this session.  I say that because when I 3bet hands like this and catch a piece I often say 'I look like I've got AK' as well.

    I think you've narrowed his range far to much.  If you've been seen to do a few marginal call downs then he could be looking to bet two streets for value with a few hands.  Also how many times do you check an 8x hand OOP on the river here?  I can fully see the temptation to call on this board but do we have any evidence he can float?  It's not the most common thing to see at 30nl.  Personally I think one of his cards is the 8d here a fair amount.

    Sigh fold or cape call, I probably prefer the former.  It just looks like he has it and I would need some clear proof he was even capable of not having it.
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  • beanehbeaneh Member Posts: 4,079
    edited April 2013
    3betting is fun.

    why bet flop > check flop?
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  • nmipeisnmipeis Member Posts: 43
    edited April 2013

    watch out for them kings.

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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH Member Posts: 17,929
    edited April 2013
    In Response to Re: 30nl, hit a piece in 3b pot then go into c/c mode. river decision?:
    watch out for them kings.
    Posted by nmipeis
    :( Stakkkkkkkkkkkkkered again!

    ------------

    Bet flop for value right? Pair!

    And I normally turn 2p, dno what was wrong w/ the rng here.

    If I check it's hard to see how I can win the pot.

    Work to do..............

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  • rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,945
    edited April 2013
    In Response to Re: 30nl, hit a piece in 3b pot then go into c/c mode. river decision?:
    In Response to Re: 30nl, hit a piece in 3b pot then go into c/c mode. river decision? : :( Stakkkkkkkkkkkkkered again! ------------ Bet flop for value right? Pair! And I normally turn 2p, dno what was wrong w/ the rng here. If I check it's hard to see how I can win the pot. Work to do..............
    Posted by DOHHHHHHH
    What range do you give oppo to bet for value
    What is oppo flatting range ip pre

    You can win the pot by having the best hand + bluff catcher
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  • nmipeisnmipeis Member Posts: 43
    edited April 2013
    betting the flop certainly wouldnt be for value but he probs folds often enough for it be +ev
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  • rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,945
    edited April 2013
    In Response to Re: 30nl, hit a piece in 3b pot then go into c/c mode. river decision?:
    betting the flop certainly wouldnt be for value but he probs folds often enough for it be +ev
    Posted by nmipeis
    What part of range would you think we fold out to make it +ev ?

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  • nmipeisnmipeis Member Posts: 43
    edited April 2013
    over card combo that havent got fd's
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  • rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,945
    edited April 2013
    In Response to .:
    over card combo that havent got fd's
    Posted by nmipeis
    Suppose range v range betting is good

    given that we have to double barrel as range can also have FD's  - how do you think this affects river
    c/c
    c/f
    b/f
    b/c
    ? />


    --
    still think a lot of this revolves around what we think oppo flatting range is pre

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  • grantorinograntorino Member Posts: 4,710
    edited April 2013
    In Response to Re: 30nl, hit a piece in 3b pot then go into c/c mode. river decision?:
    In Response to Re: 30nl, hit a piece in 3b pot then go into c/c mode. river decision? : :( Stakkkkkkkkkkkkkered again! ------------ Bet flop for value right? Pair! And I normally turn 2p, dno what was wrong w/ the rng here. If I check it's hard to see how I can win the pot. Work to do..............
    Posted by DOHHHHHHH
    You don't have to win every pot

    It's a bad choice of hand to 3bet bluff with oop imo. You get yourself into a tough spot on every single street

    I don't think you can really bet that flop for value. You get value from floats but I think you should be barrelling turn and prob emptying clip a lot if you do this. Or you can do what you did which can work, but even some hands he might bluff with can catch you by river. I wouldn't have a big problem with just c/f flop tbh. You can check flop and try bluff catch, but this seems kinda asking him to fire barrells at you when you are weak and don't have much idea of his range

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  • chicknMeltchicknMelt Member Posts: 1,159
    edited April 2013
    same...this is why you dont 3bet with 47 oop
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  • donkeyplopdonkeyplop Member Posts: 3,795
    edited April 2013
    In Response to Re: 30nl, hit a piece in 3b pot then go into c/c mode. river decision?:
    cnt believe so many posts for this hand tbh  just fold pre :) 
    Posted by IDONKCALLU
    Because it's good for his image! ;)

    Posting mad laggy hands ftw.
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