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Weds main - is there a better line?

GELDYGELDY Member Posts: 5,203
edited May 2013 in The Poker Clinic
in position - fairly deep in the tourney and with strong players on table - including villain, but no notes
have a flush draw - but met with a c/r on the flop
is the call too passive allowing the pot-sized bet from the bb on the turn. is it a choice between raise or fold, or is calling for a club ok?

PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
nin777Small blind 250.00250.006625.00
aBig blind 500.00750.0020117.50
 Your hole cards
  • 7
  • 6
   
ryan1988Fold    
albaniaFold    
GELDYRaise 1150.001900.0013000.00
nin777Fold    
aCall 650.002550.0019467.50
Flop
  
  • J
  • 2
  • K
   
aCheck    
GELDYBet 1500.004050.0011500.00
aRaise 3000.007050.0016467.50
GELDYCall 1500.008550.0010000.00
Turn
  
  • 8
   
aBet 8550.0017100.007917.50
GELDYFold    
aMuck    
aWin 8550.00 16467.50
aReturn 8550.000.0025017.50

Comments

  • percival09percival09 Member Posts: 3,804
    edited May 2013
    calling is perfect 

    villain can slow down on blank turns and we can take it away from him in position, or we can hit a club and get some chippiez. as played ofc we have to fold

    20bb in sky mtts is more than enough
  • rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,945
    edited May 2013
    depends what you think about that min c/r - call or shove

  • TommyDTommyD Member Posts: 4,389
    edited May 2013
    I like calling with position on the flop.  You gotta think, what are we going to do when we have sets, two pairs, AK etc here?  Board hits our range nicely as well, he should be slowing down with parts of his value range and may have second thoughts on continuing with his air/draws.

    The downside of playing lovely balanced poker is sometimes they bash the pot button and we're stuck without any fold equity.

    I think this line is great to have as your 'mostly do this' as it should be with your value hands.  I also advocate sometimes raising the flop just like sometimes you'll be 3 betting the flop with sets, 2 pairs & air.

    Fold now, make a note that they like to follow a click back with a pot bet and hope they do that exact line a few more times to other people, but they get to showdown and you can make a note of some of the range they have in this spot.
  • BigHawk89BigHawk89 Member Posts: 627
    edited May 2013
    I bet smaller on the flop.

    As played I think it's fine. Never think the check min raise is a bluff so we don't wana get it in with 7 high.
  • GELDYGELDY Member Posts: 5,203
    edited May 2013
    In Response to Re: Weds main - is there a better line?:
    I bet smaller on the flop. As played I think it's fine. Never think the check min raise is a bluff so we don't wana get it in with 7 high.
    Posted by BigHawk89
    thanks all for the feedback. good to know I wasn't being totally stupid.

    hi hawk,

    I randomly adjust my betting up and down within a range. this one was at the higher end. are you ok with that or do you think it is important to bet the "correct" size?


  • BigHawk89BigHawk89 Member Posts: 627
    edited May 2013
    In Response to Re: Weds main - is there a better line?:
    In Response to Re: Weds main - is there a better line? : thanks all for the feedback. good to know I wasn't being totally stupid. hi hawk, I randomly adjust my betting up and down within a range. this one was at the higher end. are you ok with that or do you think it is important to bet the "correct" size?
    Posted by GELDY

    Just having my input not saying betting smaller is "correct" but think a smaller bet does the same job and if we get raised it will be a smaller amount where we can call and see the turn cheaper. Don't understand you seem offended?
  • MattBatesMattBates Member Posts: 4,118
    edited May 2013
    In Response to Re: Weds main - is there a better line?:
    In Response to Re: Weds main - is there a better line? : thanks all for the feedback. good to know I wasn't being totally stupid. hi hawk, I randomly adjust my betting up and down within a range. this one was at the higher end. are you ok with that or do you think it is important to bet the "correct" size?
    Posted by GELDY
    Why have you gone with the higher end? With that sort of board it has hit a lot of our opponents range so I would have thought your better to go down a pot control route. We can still stack them if we hit our flush and they have 2pr/straight hands but I think we are better going smaller. If we have high cards (on that board) and the flush then bet big as we are happier getting it in. Hope that makes sense
  • GELDYGELDY Member Posts: 5,203
    edited May 2013
    In Response to Re: Weds main - is there a better line?:
    In Response to Re: Weds main - is there a better line? : Just having my input not saying betting smaller is "correct" but think a smaller bet does the same job and if we get raised it will be a smaller amount where we can call and see the turn cheaper. Don't understand you seem offended?
    Posted by BigHawk89
    hi Hawk/Matt

    not offended at all - serious question. i agree that a smaller bet would be more standard. i didn't choose to bet larger, it is just the random offset i adjusted the bet with was at the high end of the range. i'm now wondering whether the benefits of trying to make my play less readable are outweighed by the loss of chips in hands like this.

    PS as a mathematician i can do random algorithms - it's playing the poker i have to work on!


  • rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,945
    edited May 2013

    Surely it depends if you want to achieve balance with your sizing or exploit oppo tendacies

    If your deciding to go small or big would give off massive tells to an oppo that could either read you too good and/or exploit you. If oppo is not good then you don’t have to worry so much.

     

    Think you want a more balanced sizing here if oppo is decent be it big or small or find an optimum middle ground

  • grantorinograntorino Member Posts: 4,710
    edited May 2013
    I think it's fine, we are in bad shape v his range if we 3b unless he c/r/f a good bit, doesn't strike me as a board **** bluffraise that often. If he c/r bigger I prob fold
  • RobIlesRobIles Member Posts: 32
    edited May 2013
    As played fine. Prob bet slightly smaller on flop.

    Can you get him to fold k10 or higher FDs? Id raise here from time to time for sure
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