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robbie1992robbie1992 Member Posts: 725
edited May 2013 in The Poker Clinic
PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
walks2311 Small blind  £0.10 £0.10 £53.69
steve1602 Big blind  £0.20 £0.30 £21.74
 Your hole cards
  • Q
  • Q
   
Superman_ Fold     
DN34689 Fold     
trevor1954 Call  £0.20 £0.50 £21.40
robbie1992 Raise  £0.80 £1.30 £27.51
walks2311 Fold     
steve1602 Raise  £2.40 £3.70 £19.34
trevor1954 Fold     
robbie1992 Raise  £6.20 £9.90 £21.31
steve1602 All-in  £19.34 £29.24 £0.00
robbie1992 Call  £14.94 £44.18 £6.37
steve1602 Show
  • K
  • K
   
robbie1992 Show
  • Q
  • Q
   
Flop
  
  • 10
  • 7
  • K
   
Turn
  
  • 3
   
River
  
  • 6
   
steve1602 Win Three Kings £42.38  £42.38
same nonsense different day, am i doing somthing wrong? please dont say varience because it happens everytime i get QQ, im obv overrating the hand?
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Comments

  • percival09percival09 Member Posts: 3,804
    edited May 2013
    bbv
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  • bencbenc Member Posts: 1,059
    edited May 2013
    Wouldn't worry so much about coolers they happen, can maybe find a fold here with qq against alot of the regs depends on reads, you did flat a 7 pound 4bet against me with 79s a little while ago so maybe your playing too loose in other pots? or was you just tilting?
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  • THEROCK573THEROCK573 Member Posts: 2,550
    edited May 2013
    if kk is dealt everytime you have QQ then i think the answers simple :-)
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  • robbie1992robbie1992 Member Posts: 725
    edited May 2013
    In Response to Re: :(:
    Wouldn't worry so much about coolers they happen, can maybe find a fold here with qq against alot of the regs depends on reads, you did flat a 7 pound 4bet against me with 79s a little while ago so maybe your playing too loose in other pots? or was you just tilting?
    Posted by benc
    tbh i done that just to mix it up, i was going card dead and thought if i hit any part of the board i will get paided off, ill admit that flop was brilliant.

    Yeah but is it a bad beat? thats what im asking, or is it just not a +ev situation? u rarely see jj shown and even when its ak your only a flip
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  • robbie1992robbie1992 Member Posts: 725
    edited May 2013
    In Response to Re: :(:
    bbv
    Posted by percival09
    i said dont say varience......
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  • grantorinograntorino Member Posts: 4,710
    edited May 2013
    In Response to Re: :(:
    In Response to Re: :( : tbh i done that just to mix it up, i was going card dead and thought if i hit any part of the board i will get paided off, ill admit that flop was brilliant. Yeah but is it a bad beat? thats what im asking, or is it just not a +ev situation? u rarely see jj shown and even when its ak your only a flip
    Posted by robbie1992
    What's villains 3b range

    What range do you think continues when you 4b

    Answering these questions should tell you the correct line
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  • robbie1992robbie1992 Member Posts: 725
    edited May 2013
    Yeah he was tag not stepped out of line, but is it a flat, Iv still gt the 3rd bet hand in poker, I can't fold that pre can I?
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  • Lambert180Lambert180 Member Posts: 12,197
    edited May 2013
    You're still not answering the questions GT mentioned, and these are what will give you the answer. You have to think about why you're doing what you're doing.

    If you think that when you 4bet, he is only ever gonna call or 5bet get it in with KK and AA, then what's the point in 4betting? If you think he'll get it in with AA,KK,QQ,JJ,AK, maybe TT, then you can 4bet and get it in.

    Assuming he's not a massive nit, he'll probably be 3betting AK, AQ, TT+ and some SCs like JTs, 9Ts, 89s etc, so we can just flat and play against a range we crush.

    So if we're 4betting knowing he will only continue with hands that crush us, why would we 4bet?

    Now it's down to you whether you have reads or not. If we're readless, then I don't mind 4bet getting it in, or flatting the 3bet, but you need to making notes on what people are 3/4/5betting
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  • robbie1992robbie1992 Member Posts: 725
    edited May 2013
    In Response to Re: :(:
    You're still not answering the questions GT mentioned, and these are what will give you the answer. You have to think about why you're doing what you're doing. If you think that when you 4bet, he is only ever gonna call or 5bet get it in with KK and AA, then what's the point in 4betting? If you think he'll get it in with AA,KK,QQ,JJ,AK, maybe TT, then you can 4bet and get it in. Assuming he's not a massive nit, he'll probably be 3betting AK, AQ, TT+ and some SCs like JTs, 9Ts, 89s etc, so we can just flat and play against a range we crush. So if we're 4betting knowing he will only continue with hands that crush us, why would we 4bet? Now it's down to you whether you have reads or not. If we're readless, then I don't mind 4bet getting it in, or flatting the 3bet, but you need to making notes on what people are 3/4/5betting
    Posted by Lambert180
    True, I think his range is narrow. There wasn't a point in 4 bettin if ur thinking of it like that. But if I flat because 4 betting will. Get action from hands I'm losing too arnt I effectively set mining? Also what do I do when the flop come 2 4 8, just c/f?
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  • liamboi11liamboi11 Member Posts: 2,141
    edited May 2013
    it`s totally dependant on your opponent if the guy is very tight I prob just flat the 3bet in position and take it from there see what flops comes and how they react to flop.

    but yeah if you put him on a very tight range no point 4betting m8


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  • BorinLonerBorinLoner Member Posts: 3,863
    edited May 2013
    "...QQ, im obv overrating the hand?"

    ^This is your problem!

    Not that you're overrating hands but that you're thinking about the absolute value of your hand. You need to think about the relative value of your hand. You have to judge your hand's strength against your opponent's range, not just think "I have QQ! Yipee!!"

    This hand is very reminiscent of another hand you posted a few weeks ago. You weren't thinking about how your hand played against that opponent's range either. Instead of repeating myself I'll just link it up. My thoughts remain the same.

    This one.
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  • robbie1992robbie1992 Member Posts: 725
    edited May 2013
    In Response to Re: :(:
    "...QQ, im obv overrating the hand?" ^This is your problem! Not that you're overrating hands but that you're thinking about the absolute value of your hand. You need to think about the relative value of your hand. You have to judge your hand's strength against your opponent's range, not just think "I have QQ! Yipee!!" This hand is very reminiscent of another hand you posted a few weeks ago. You weren't thinking about how your hand played against that opponent's range either. Instead of repeating myself I'll just link it up. My thoughts remain the same. This one.
    Posted by BorinLoner
    No I do think of range against range but I still have the 3rd best hand I have to think of that also.
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  • BorinLonerBorinLoner Member Posts: 3,863
    edited May 2013
    In Response to Re: :(:
    In Response to Re: :( : No I do think of range against range but I still have the 3rd best hand I have to think of that also.
    Posted by robbie1992
    No you don't. You think about your opponent's range first.

    Then you think "Does my hand beat that range?" If your opponent's range is only AA and KK, then the fact that QQ is the third best hand in poker is totally irrelevant.

    If you opponent's range is really wide, then JJ and TT may also be beating him, so again the fact that QQ is the third best hand in poker is irrelevant.

    The only thing that's relevant is how your hand plays against your opponent's range. Forget that QQ is the third best possible hand because it's never relevant on it's own.
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  • devonfish5devonfish5 Member Posts: 4,291
    edited May 2013

    Robbie,
    i'm no expert,obviously,but for me i'm only ever going to be getting around 100 bb in with KK or AA
    and i'm sure there must be many others that think the same way.

    to be getting QQ in I would need very good reads on opponent and even then I would be getting it in reluctantly,as these players can and do get KK & AA dealt too.


    I don't know the stats regarding getting QQ aipf but i'm guessing it must be a close call as to a fold.

    :)
    dev
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  • grantorinograntorino Member Posts: 4,710
    edited May 2013
    In Response to Re: :(:
    In Response to Re: :( : True, I think his range is narrow. There wasn't a point in 4 bettin if ur thinking of it like that. But if I flat because 4 betting will. Get action from hands I'm losing too arnt I effectively set mining? Also what do I do when the flop come 2 4 8, just c/f?
    Posted by robbie1992
    If you are beaten by his 3betting range fold (or possibly call and set mine in this case as you prob have implied odds)

    If you are ahead of his 3bet range but behind the part of this range that continues to a 4bet then call and play postflop

    If you beat the part of his range that continues to a 4bet and you think this range is big enough to make it more profitable than calling then 4b/c

    If you flat the 3bet you are not neccesarily just set mining , just make the best decision using what you know about his range given his postflop actions board texture etc
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  • ClintonH83ClintonH83 Member Posts: 431
    edited May 2013
    Id call pre, fold on the flop this hand and the other QQ hand Borin put on id call pre, check raise the flop all in...
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