10nl - line check/ is river ever a fold with odds i'm getting?

benc

Readless as villain had only just sat down. After looking back at the hand am essentially only bluff catching on the river the way the hand has played out with flushes and straight making up the majority of his river lead outs here? Getting close to 5/1 on the river but i'm not sure i'll be good enough of the time to pay it off..

manny84201	Small blind		£0.05	£0.05	£18.77
drazzi	Big blind		£0.10	£0.15	£17.39
BRAHER	Sit out
	Your hole cards	J J
daddiadd	Fold
x	Call		£0.10	£0.25	£14.72
benc	Raise		£0.40	£0.65	£23.92
manny84201	Fold
drazzi	Fold
x	Call		£0.30	£0.95	£14.42
Flop
		10 J 8
x	Bet		£0.48	£1.43	£13.94
benc	Raise		£1.50	£2.93	£22.42
x	Call		£1.02	£3.95	£12.92
Turn
		5
x	Bet		£1.30	£5.25	£11.62
benc	Raise		£4.40	£9.65	£18.02
x	Call		£3.10	£12.75	£8.52
River
		7
x	Bet		£4.20	£16.95	£4.32
benc	?

LnarinOO

jus stove it mate u need 19.53% equity in total here 

give him a range an work it out

sortofblue

I think that the decision needs to be made on the turn. If we are putting money in on the turn (either raise or call) then we have to do the same on the river (unless the river is a 9 or a diamond and they shove) even though the 7 also completes more draws. With a new player who I don't know I probably just call the turn with this thinking instead of raising as it then makes a cheaper call on the river as I am interested to see if he had it if he is a new player that just sat down and took this line.

LnarinOO

In Response to Re: 10nl - line check/ is river ever a fold with odds i'm getting?:

I think that the decision needs to be made on the turn. If we are putting money in on the turn (either raise or call) then we have to do the same on the river (unless the river is a 9 or a diamond and they shove) even though the 7 also completes more draws. With a new player who I don't know I probably just call the turn with this thinking instead of raising as it then makes a cheaper call on the river as I am interested to see if he had it if he is a new player that just sat down and took this line.
Posted by sortofblue

the river isnt a brick tho, so alot of what we were v/bettn and protectin against got there..!! this rvr changes everythin compared to the turn so both steets should be evaluated differently not the same 

GELDY

how many hands you beat could bet the river with this line?

on the flop he donk leads out - so has caught something on the flop, and calls your raise - could well be a drawing hand

on the turn he doesn't respect your raise even with a flush having got there

and he bets the river knowing you have come over the top every time so far

grantorino

Flat turn imo

River meh idk I prob sighcall

GELDY

In Response to Re: 10nl - line check/ is river ever a fold with odds i'm getting?:

Flat turn imo River meh idk I prob sighcall
Posted by grantorino

sighcall for what?to prove we are beat?I was tempted to give this reply but the more I thought about it the more I couldn't do it. it's only a bluff catcher and who would bluff on that board. only thing I can think of is AA played by someone who can't let go and thinks limping pre it's a good idea.

grantorino

In Response to Re: 10nl - line check/ is river ever a fold with odds i'm getting?:

In Response to Re: 10nl - line check/ is river ever a fold with odds i'm getting? : sighcall for what?to prove we are beat?I was tempted to give this reply but the more I thought about it the more I couldn't do it. it's only a bluff catcher and who would bluff on that board. only thing I can think of is AA played by someone who can't let go and thinks limping pre it's a good idea.
Posted by GELDY

Well I was going to say fold, maybe your right. I doubt it's a bluff much, but the reasons I want to call include

Villain is obv bad, he can vbet worse imo. Sets 2 pair even overpairs Jx 

I want to see what he plays like this

There aren't many combos we beat, so your prob right, but we are getting a pretty good price with top set. 

sortofblue

In Response to Re: 10nl - line check/ is river ever a fold with odds i'm getting?:

In Response to Re: 10nl - line check/ is river ever a fold with odds i'm getting? : the river isnt a brick tho, so alot of what we were v/bettn and protectin against got there..!! this rvr changes everythin compared to the turn so both steets should be evaluated differently not the same 
Posted by LnarinOO

OK, this is probably a leak in my game (I do have very many). I was thinking that when the straight comes on the river it was kind of a blank since his most likely draw was a flush that got there on the turn. Essentially the way I think about it is when the flush comes on the turn and opponent keeps putting in chips then a straight on the end is a blank, compared to the situation where the straight is made on the turn and then the flush completing on their river is then not a blank. Is this thr wrong sort of logic?

 

Out of interest benc what did you? Did you get to see his hand?

benc

Thanks for the feedback people, tbh it didn't even cross my mind not to raise the turn but makes more sense in reflection with it being a dangerous card and not wanting to inflate the pot.

Yep i paid it off oppo had 910o no diamond for the straight and i instantly knew it was a situation where i was yet again calling effectively knowing i'm beat.