10nl line check

bigandy18

playerActionCardsAmountPotBalancexSmall blind £0.05£0.05£4.90elbows7Sitout    TOOGOOODBig blind £0.10£0.15£3.31 Your hole cardsKK   Cash_DaddyFold    bigandy18Raise £0.30£0.45£11.83jxxCall £0.30£0.75£10.20xCall £0.25£1.00£4.65TOOGOOODFold    Flop  KJ5   xBet £1.00£2.00£3.65bigandy18Call £1.00£3.00£10.83xxCall £1.00£4.00£9.20Turn  2   xCheck    bigandy18Check    xxBet £1.00£5.00£8.20xCall £1.00£6.00£2.65bigandy18Call £1.00£7.00£9.83River  4   xCheck    bigandy18Check    xxBet £1.90£8.90£6.30xAll-in £2.65£11.55£0.00bigandy18    
Ok so the script is 2 standard 10nl players i'm up against. The river I believe is the easiest decision here so my query is the remainder of the streets. These guys haven't had any major spots that I've noticed so far and X had bought into the table as a shortstack around 10 hands previously and had been pretty passive. I think my major mistake is not raising the flop but would like some opinion on the matter.

Cheers

benc

Yeah think you nailed it- flop is definetly the key to this hand, with two other people in the hand you want to be raising it up here and putting them to a decision on the flop, i would raise to about £3- £3.50. How comes you checked flop? i could underatand on a really safe board finding a check to keep both players in then raising it up on the turn, but this board is quite wet with straight and flush potential.

bigandy18

In Response to Re: 10nl line check:

Yeah think you nailed it- flop is definetly the key to this hand, with two other people in the hand you want to be raising it up here and putting them to a decision on the flop, i would raise to about £3- £3.50. How comes you checked flop? i could underatand on a really safe board finding a check to keep both players in then raising it up on the turn, but this board is quite wet with straight and flush potential.
Posted by benc

Trying to be too smart for my own good lol

Lambert180

Yeah definitely raise flop

As played, we can't fold for that price

bigandy18

In Response to Re: 10nl line check:

raise flop raise turn by not raising your letting people get there and u want to get max value out of your set 
Posted by IDONKCALLU

I can see raising the flop but surely raising the turn doesn't achieve anything as if their looking to get there they've already got there? Does everyone raise the turn?

benc

I can see raising the flop but surely raising the turn doesn't achieve anything as if their looking to get there they've already got there? Does everyone raise the turn?

The problem with this train of thought is we may as well fold the turn if we don't believe we have the best hand enough of the time which we most definetly would- so yeah i agree with idcu raise turn as played- we are effectively calling having no idea where we are with the hand thus giving giving ourselves a tough river decision where you are essentially left completly guessing what two opponents might turn up with so can only really call/fold therefore missing a ton of value if they did have two pair hands or lower sets etc.

Lambert180

Well it's hard to say, like it probably won't come up, because if we raise the flop, they probably check the turn to us and then we just bet it ourselves so there's no option for us to raise a bet.

BorinLoner

On the river, I doubt there's any value raising because there's little chance of the remaining opponent calling a river 3-bet with less than a flush. We can call without worrying about being set all-in, though, because the raise is an underbet.

Definitely raise the flop. We can be called by draws and weaker hands on this board which is what we want. After just calling the flop, I don't know if we can get it in against worse on the turn. It's not that our opponents can't have worse hands but, since they can see the flush has come in, are they stacking off with Kx, Jx or straight draws?

I don't like raising the turn as the flop was played.

j0hns0ns

I'm raising the flop ... and I'm raising the turn.. i want to build the pot as much as possible and if they've hit then thats just unlucky...but of course you've still got 10 outs to stack them completely... if they are short stacked then perhaps calling the turn is ok 

Lambert180

I agree with Borin but he beat me to it. As played, once we've just flatted the flop, I think we have to flat the turn too.

rancid

raise flop

raising turn is just crazy bad

j0hns0ns

re-reading more slowly i see my last post was rushed and quite maniacal - excuse my madness

agreed as played checking turn would be best

sighcall

snap rasie flop

pryce6

In Response to Re: 10nl line check:

snap rasie flop
Posted by sighcall

Why 'snap' raise? 

jugglegeek

The problem with this hand is that you have flopped the nuts and the only aggressive action you have made so far is your pre-flop raise. Bet bet bet and if in doubt raise and then bet some more. Why are you calling the flop? Why are you check-calling the turn? why are you checking the river. When you have the nuts put the money in the middle.