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£2.30 BH........flop decision.

waller02waller02 Member Posts: 9,072
edited June 2013 in The Poker Clinic

New to the table so no reads on oppo.

After his pot size cbet I feel my only options are shove or fold.....is this correct or can I just call?? How about pre, should I be 3 betting or is flatting in position fine??

How should I have played this hand? As you can see I did shove but not sure if it was the correct thing to do.

jason105 Small blind  40.00 40.00 4010.00
sithegoo26 Big blind  80.00 120.00 3535.00
 Your hole cards
  • A
  • J
   
ghirllizzy Fold     
Raise  160.00 280.00 6380.00
waller02 Call  160.00 440.00 2010.00
bbMike Fold     
jason105 Fold     
sithegoo26 Call  80.00 520.00 3455.00
Flop
  
  • 3
  • J
  • 9
   
sithegoo26 Check     
Bet  520.00 1040.00 5860.00
waller02 All-in  2010.00 3050.00 0.00

Comments

  • gazza127gazza127 Member Posts: 2,156
    edited June 2013
    cant call flop IMO. shove or fold.  I probably play it exactly the same... but im no poker pro ;)
  • liamboi11liamboi11 Member Posts: 2,141
    edited June 2013
    I know the results read your diary lol

    but before reading your diary I still shove 
  • Lambert180Lambert180 Member Posts: 12,197
    edited June 2013
    Yeah it's shove or fold on the flop and I go for shove.

    Don't know the result but judging by what Liam said, I'm guessing it aint good lol.
  • profman15profman15 Member Posts: 1,808
    edited June 2013
    Hi W

    Low stakes BH....i'd shove here or at least raise 4x here and call any ai. You are short and in these T's a couple of lucky double ups can do wonders. AJs is as good a hand to do it with in this situation.
  • waller02waller02 Member Posts: 9,072
    edited June 2013
    Yeah it was bad news he had QQ, but as somebody mentioned on my diary I'm not calling pre just to go and fold with 25bb on the flop with TPTK.

    Cheers was pretty confident I played it ok, just needed confirmation
  • GELDYGELDY Member Posts: 5,203
    edited June 2013
    but you can 3bet pre and fold to a 4bet shove - still have just enough chips to do that
    although if he just flats you will still end up with it allin on the flop
  • waller02waller02 Member Posts: 9,072
    edited June 2013
    Yeah geldy I did ask the 3 bet question but nobody gave any reply about that. My only concern was whether or not I was too short to 3 bet/fold.......I'm not sure when a stack is considered to be too short to do so tbh
  • est1967est1967 Member Posts: 247
    edited June 2013

    IMO i think your call gave you no answers before the flop,I would of re raised then if he shoves pre its an instant fold as you would still have about 18 bb rather than as it panned out none!

    Once you just call pre and on that flop i think its hard to get away from doing your stck tbh but like i said be more aggro pre flop.

  • GELDYGELDY Member Posts: 5,203
    edited June 2013
    In Response to Re: £2.30 BH........flop decision.:
    Yeah geldy I did ask the 3 bet question but nobody gave any reply about that. My only concern was whether or not I was too short to 3 bet/fold.......I'm not sure when a stack is considered to be too short to do so tbh
    Posted by waller02
    neither am i
    but i like to consider where am i left if i fold
    and in this case i am happy to play on even if folding my 3bet so i would do it
  • Lambert180Lambert180 Member Posts: 12,197
    edited June 2013
    Sorry Waller,

    I think flatting pre is fine/the best option. I don't wanna 3bet and get it in this deep with only AJs and I don't want to 3bet/fold. We can just call in position with a strong hand and keep his range wider.
  • waller02waller02 Member Posts: 9,072
    edited June 2013

    So basically if we have a <30bb stack our 3 bet range should be narrowed to hands that we would be happy to get it in with? Or are there other factors to take into account?

  • BorinLonerBorinLoner Member Posts: 3,863
    edited June 2013
    In Response to Re: £2.30 BH........flop decision.:
    Yeah geldy I did ask the 3 bet question but nobody gave any reply about that. My only concern was whether or not I was too short to 3 bet/fold.......I'm not sure when a stack is considered to be too short to do so tbh
    Posted by waller02
    If 3-betting would leave you with too little behind to reasonably play with, you can't 3-bet-fold. If a 3-bet would leave you with the correct pot-odds against an opponent's 4-bet shoving range, you can't 3-bet fold.

    I agree with Lambert in not liking 3-bet-folding out of this stack, in position with a hand as valuable as AJ. If you're going to be 3-bet-folding, then do it with some junk that has no value in situations where you think the 3-bet gets through a lot - So against someone who's opening wide and only continues with strong hands.

    AJ is a pretty decent hand and, in position, we're going to have a lot of advantages post-flop. I like calling.

    Obviously post-flop you need some tremendous read that this guy only bets full-pot with hands that beat your AJ to be able to fold. It's possible but readless I wouldn't be folding. I might call this flop bet, though. I don't want him folding his AK when I shove, so I'd let him decide whether to barrel the turn.
  • GELDYGELDY Member Posts: 5,203
    edited June 2013
    A large stack minraising pre utg+1 could be playing very wide

    Some would fold to a 3bet, while others would be happy to call to keep an option on your bounty. I would be happy with either option holding AJs ip. Does he shove with many hands we beat? Would be nice to have some reads, but if he has been "well-behaved" (ie lively but not too aggro) up to now I'm still happy to 3bet/fold here




  • TommyDTommyD Member Posts: 4,389
    edited June 2013
    Firstly the hand.  You played it fine.  He's not always going to have an over pair here.

    Can we 3bet/fold with this stack?  Yes.  Should we be 3bet/folding with this holding?  I don't think so.  It's in the lovely middle ground of strength.  In a £2.30 BHer I've seen big stacks 4bet jam QT.  Heck I've seen a big stack bounty man call off a 20bb rejam with QTo in the £55 BHer (that was last night, I'm not bitter).  That being said without reads do I want it all in pre?  Not really, again back to the strength of our hand, too strong to fold pre and too weak to get it in against an unknown range.

    I think flatting is fine here.  My 3bet range to get it in would be AQs+  TT+ I think, that range might need some tweaking though so don't take it as gospel.  I would 3bet/fold some broadways, some suited connectors maybe some pairs and assorted other junk if I think he's opening to fold a decent amount of the time or can be outplayed on the flop and turn.  We're probably going to get flatted a lot by the big stack and without reads I would probably keep my 3bet/folding to a minimum until I get a bead on the guy.
  • rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,945
    edited June 2013
    no need to 3 bet this ip

    you played it fine, calling on flop is never bad either
  • waller02waller02 Member Posts: 9,072
    edited June 2013
    ty for all the advice
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