Late stages last night

est1967

Was just asking for advice in playing a 35bb stack deep in last nights dtd games.

In dtd 1 im in the cut off with A 7 so i shoved the bb with 12bbs calls with J 5 and wins but was this correct play by him and me.

In the other game i only had 14 bbs so on the button i shoved with KJ and 88 called and won but i think i played that correctly .But not sure if i played above hand as correctly.I must say it was a fantastic tournament all for 5.50 very enjoyable even though i didnt cash.

THEROCK573

you shove 35 bbs from the cut off? bb has 12bbs but what does the button and sb have, the J5 should fold, A7 is just a fold here all day every day unless you have a really passive table and then you can just make a standard raise, 35 bb is too big a stack to be open shoving, i personally start open shoving when i have 10-15 bbs.

est1967

In Response to Re: Late stages last night:

you shove 35 bbs from the cut off? bb has 12bbs but what does the button and sb have, the J5 should fold, A7 is just a fold here all day every day unless you have a really passive table and then you can just make a standard raise, 35 bb is too big a stack to be open shoving, i personally start open shoving when i have 10-15 bbs.
Posted by THEROCK573

ok ty

hhyftrftdr

Both plays as bad as each other. Shoving 35 bigs with A7?! Calling off your 12 bigs stack with J5?! Don't mind a minraise but if the button and blinds have been quite lively/have good jamming stacks then happy to fold pre and move to the next hand.

est1967

In Response to Re: Late stages last night:

Both plays as bad as each other. Shoving 35 bigs with A7?! Calling off your 12 bigs stack with J5?! Don't mind a minraise but if the button and blinds have been quite lively/have good jamming stacks then happy to fold pre and move to the next hand.
Posted by hhyftrftdr

So the point being i was over the moon i got small stack calling my shove with his hand tbh i was told i got 66 off the hand . I just got unlucky but id have A7 V J5 Any day of the week just wish mr poker god could of been kinder lol

hhyftrftdr

In Response to Re: Late stages last night:

In Response to Re: Late stages last night : So the point being i was over the moon i got small stack calling my shove with his hand tbh i was told i got 66 off the hand . I just got unlucky but id have A7 V J5 Any day of the week just wish mr poker god could of been kinder lol
Posted by est1967

The point is, almost all of the time, if you shove A7 for 35bb into 3 people and you get looked up you are in terrible, terrible shape. Why a rag J would call off there is beyond me as it's a simple pass for him and look for a better spot to get their chips in first. He has 12bb, not even that short really. But your stack is only 35bb so to lose a third of your stack would make quite the dent and it's a big risk for small reward.

The only scenario where the 35bb cutoff A7 shove would be not terrible is if the button and blinds are playing >5/6bb and you are applying maximum pressure on or around the bubble or big pay jump. Even then a minraise would be better as you wouldn't be folding to a shove and they know that.

est1967

In Response to Re: Late stages last night:

In Response to Re: Late stages last night : The point is, almost all of the time, if you shove A7 for 35bb into 3 people and you get looked up you are in terrible, terrible shape. Why a rag J would call off there is beyond me as it's a simple pass for him and look for a better spot to get their chips in first. He has 12bb, not even that short really. But your stack is only 35bb so to lose a third of your stack would make quite the dent and it's a big risk for small reward. The only scenario where the 35bb cutoff A7 shove would be not terrible is if the button and blinds are playing />5/6bb and you are applying maximum pressure on or around the bubble or big pay jump. Even then a minraise would be better as you wouldn't be folding to a shove and they know that.
Posted by hhyftrftdr

The 3 stacks had 5bbs 8 bbs and 12bbs ,The player with 8 bbs folded 66 so yes J5 calling was a suprise but tbh i was happy in hindsight he did especially when i hit my ace only for turn and river to go JJ. Just one of those things in poker. Good luck.

Lambert180

If you're shoving in to stacks of 5xBB, 8xBB and 12xBB then it's fine imo, assuming the blinds are worth picking up the times we get folds.

est1967

In Response to Re: Late stages last night:

If you're shoving in to stacks of 5xBB, 8xBB and 12xBB then it's fine imo, assuming the blinds are worth picking up the times we get folds.
Posted by Lambert180

Yeah agree,I was solid on our table so when i shoved or raised it generally was folded to me.The funny outcome was the player who called with J5 commented that he was on 3 tables in the dtd 1,2,and3 and thought he had JJ. he did on the river lol.

Obviuosly i lost 1/3 of my stack then i just could not find spots to push etc but all in all it was a good tournament and i still think i played it correctly.

hhyftrftdr

In Response to Re: Late stages last night:

If you're shoving in to stacks of 5xBB, 8xBB and 12xBB then it's fine imo, assuming the blinds are worth picking up the times we get folds.
Posted by Lambert180

Think it's very marginal shoving 35 bigs with what is essentially a rag ace into a 12bb stack. Big risk for small reward.

est1967

In Response to Re: Late stages last night:

In Response to Re: Late stages last night : Think it's very marginal shoving 35 bigs with what is essentially a rag ace into a 12bb stack. Big risk for small reward.
Posted by hhyftrftdr

TBH On a 10 handed table yes A7 is rag but 6 handed with only 4 on table to bet, A7 becomes A10/J in my opinion.

profman15

Hi e

Its not really your stack size you consider if there are lower ones behind you. The Eff stack size is whats involved. Even if the eff is 12 BB then A7 is correct to push for him  BUT what about SB stack size. If his is bigger than BB but smaller than yours then this will be EFF ss to be used.
TBH with 35BB A7 on btn imo a raise is ok but thats all im doing if SB has say 15 BB as he may try to resteal and force you to fold imo. 35BB still has a lot of play and fold equity in it. You don't need to play desperate measures here.

The stack size of the remaining players in a pot is crucial in these situations as it really is a mathematical situation.

Kj is well within the range to shove on the btn and you were fine to push here as you need a double up but can still improve your stack by 10% with folds.