MTTs

LARSON7

Tonight I played in the community game, finished  145/192, 65/154 and 81/149.

When i started the MTT thread, the 10 following games, i was happy with how i was playing.

More recently, the last week, i would say i've been playing pretty bad. And ive done nothing in tounies.

Tonight, i played okish, but made a load of mistakes too.

Like I had a hand against Boles with pocket Queens, it was 3 bet, and i 4 bet it and was called. Flop came down king high and i never bet (i was out of position i think), basically it checked to the river which was a blank. I still never bet, tho i was certain by then i had the best hand. Butchered a couple of other hands too.

Having a look, there's always players that consistantly do well, like TommyD, Andrew1947, Ebberdon and many others at the high levels, and equally there's players that do consistantly well at lower stakes, like pommefrittes.

I would like to get better at MTT's, clearly there is a lot i am doing wrong/ not right. Maybe i should accept, they are just not for me. But, i'm going to percevere.

The reason i'm writing this is to ask what else would people suggest i do. Like maybe watch some videos do some reading up on them. Tbh, i've never really done this, because i find it difficult to properly absorb something if it isn't interactive.

I'm at a cross roads and don't know where to go with it.

gazza127

You get better at MTTs by playing them.  Thats it.  You'l get better by practice and learning from your mistakes.  Of course I should mention that MTTs are high variance so its not unnatural for the best players to have a poor run... some times its just the cards.

Videos? meh.  Books?  meh.

Yes i suppose they could teach you MTT strategies (i wouldnt know) but poker is very situation dependent... especially in MTTs when stacks fluctuate massively so personally I dont look at them.

Just keep playing low buy ins as practice.  I recommend some £2.20 tournaments like a £50 guarenteed.  Gets about 15 runners usually so you can get experience in all phases of tournament poker (early on, bubble and HU) with minimal cost with a better opportunity to cash.

hhyftrftdr

Just play the small deepstacks that run pretty frequently. Get a good amount of play in them for a small outlay. Think they are a better option than small bh's as tournament strategy generally goes out the window in those!

THEROCK573

you havent played many mtts though really have you so you could be just running bad, wait til you have played about 2000 mtts plus before you decide if there for you or not. maybe try a coach or something let him take a look at your game, you may only need tweaked a little just to plug a few leaks and you will be sorted.

GELDY

1. You need to be able to adapt your play based on average stack size and blind level and be alert to how these are changing as the game progresses

2. As you go deep you cannot just wait for good hands and spotting the situations where you can/need to take chances becomes important

I would recommend playing loads and focus on these two topics. Play some turbo games as well as slow ones as these need you to adjust to these factors more rapidly. 

Good luck

tomo_efc

When your running bad, it knocks your confidence, and plays with your mind.

I bet when the flop came down with a k you sighed and thought someones got to have a king

and im beat and i dont want to loose more chips.

You have to play your prem hands, if you think your going to get out played, go allin if its late on..

profman15

Hi L

I understand your confusion. The players you mention are good players but they make chip losing errors though overall, their play may be good. Books and articles....i say yes to. You need to see the chances 'good' players take. A lot of them are either out in the first 25% or cashing well. It's that lack of fear or should i say recognising the fear in others that makes their raises get through. 

Remember 10% or so cash so if you cash better than this you're doing fine. However if you accept a lower cash % but a higher financial gain by aiming for a top 3 place then this should make you more aggressive and more feared. Yes this backfires from time to time but later in the T you should be employing blind stealing and restealing tactics to keep your stack above average. Articles will help in this situation. Its easy for guys to say just get experience by playing but to me it helps to understand what's needed and how to go about improving your results. 

I think you should split your T play into quartiles though i do it in five section according to when 10,20,40,20,10% of players have been eliminated. It's not ideal but it's a way of splitting it up. This will allow you to change your strategy accordingly eg maybe start very tight or with hands that can flop a monster, then allow you to open up as well as getting a period of time to get a judgement of timid/aggro/bluffers etc. Remember mid to late sc's lose importance as you normally won't get to the turn stage or rather have the pot odds to call. Also high card have a greater importance. Consequently this will/should affect the hands you can play. On top of this your m value will allow the types of hands that you can allow yourself to play as the T progresses. The good players keep an eye out for weaknesses but you don't tend to see them complaining about bad beats do you. Mainly because they are stealing with T6o on the button and run into KK or something. A good player tends to keep you off kilter but they will do the same with good or poor hands. 

The problem is, i feel, that no strategy is 100% foolproof and fails at times and its hard to guage how successful it is as what criteria do you judge it by?. However, when it does fail you gain info on a player too so do gain.

 I bubbled two consecutive evening but was happy with my play as it helped me to win a deepstack previously and get a 2nd the previous week which 4 cashes wouldn't have amounted to.  

Pokernerve on you tube has a couple of vids on by aces up which i like myself and show an aggro approach.

LARSON7

In Response to Re: MTTs:

1. You need to be able to adapt your play based on average stack size and blind level and be alert to how these are changing as the game progresses 2. As you go deep you cannot just wait for good hands and spotting the situations where you can/need to take chances becomes important I would recommend playing loads and focus on these two topics. Play some turbo games as well as slow ones as these need you to adjust to these factors more rapidly.  Good luck
Posted by GELDY

Thanks everyone, Gaz, HH, Therock, Tomo, Geldy and Profman.

Gazza, i know what you are saying about vids/ books, it's hard because so much of poker is situational . I 'll have a look at some vids on you tube that Profman suggested.

It's a fair point I have probably not played enough MTT's, maybe a bit of run bad, but i would say being honest with myself i'm making way to many mistakes and playing bad.

Could anyone do a search on sharkscope, of just my MTT perforamnces (which excludes HU Games/ DYMs) since i started playing on sky? I'm not a member and not sure how do the search, i think you need to be a member.

I'm going to take a note of my next 100 MTTs starting from today to see how i am doing at these, which gives a reasonable sample size.

I am only going to play low stake games, £1-£2. Really good feedback above about what tournies to play, i'll have a go at most games, deepstack games, turbo games (b/hunters) and the £30 gtd games (never seen these in the lobby until recently! I'll also try playing tournies with different numbers of runners as well.

I'm going to focus on the points Geldy mentioned above. Point 2, i guess that might be some1 who is overly active raising (say a big stack) quite a lot, and you shove over the top to get them 2 fold with not a premium hand but atleast a hand you have some eqity with?

Say i have 10 Q suited in the BB, and a players been overly aggressive stealing blinds, i have 14 BB, i guess thats a good spot to just ship, cause most times they cant call. What if its 7 3 o s you are sitting with, is it ever ok to just shove any 2? (Late on when some1 is stealing a lot, and blinds are getting bigger)

Another weakness is, as prof said, i am not aggressive enough.

Thanks everyonefor te feedback. I'm going to start up a thread keeping track of how I get on with these tournies.

Lambert180

Here ya go Larson. You only need to be a member to do more specific searches. If you just want lifetime SnG stats, lifetime MTT stats, or the two combined, anyone can do that...

http://tinypic.com/r/5ebxog/5

hhyftrftdr

As Geldy mentions, stack sizes and blind levels are a pretty crucial element the deeper in a tournament we get. These, along with table dynamic, will determine what hands you commit with and what hands you pass. When we have less than, say, 50bb, we want to keep mistakes to a minimum. Less than 20bb and we essentially can't make any mistakes.

You give specific examples, like Q10s and 73o. Assuming you've been at the table long enough/have notes, only you will know if these are the right moves. When short stacked, they key factors are fold equity and calling/moving all in ranges. Try not to get blinded down; I'd much prefer to make a move with 910s and 15bb and get eliminated than blinding down to 6bb, picking up AK and getting knocked out by 2 random cards in the BB.
Keep an eye on your table mates. If someone has been very passive, then suddenly 3x's utg and we have 13bb and A10 in the SB, we can find a fold here. If the button is aggro and raises every orbit, then as long as we have fold equity then we can shove pretty much any 2 from the BB on him. These are, of course, very generic scenario's, but just pay attention and absorb as much information as possible that will help you make the correct decision.

Also, be aware of your own table image. If you have been shoving your short stack pretty frequently (and getting it through), then expect to get looked up quite light the odd time. If you have been mostly folding whilst nursing a short stack, this is potentially a great time to 3bet shove light yourself. Just make sure you pick the right villain to do this against. Ideally, you want to go to war against similar or slightly larger stacks than yours when holding anything other than premium hands.

Basically....pay attention, try not to dwindle down, and don't be afraid to make a move against certain villain types.

skicowboys

I try and play the same type of tournies and same stakes as much as I can as they all play differently, the bh and rebuys play different to the standard freeze outs, so not only do I make notes but I note what games they are playing. One example is there's no point trying to bluff anyone in a re-buy before the rebuy period is closed as you're going to get looked up. Notes for me are crucial, separating the aggressive from the maniacs and the winning from losing players (using sharkscope). If I know a player is a losing player, I play in a different manner to the winning players.
Other thing I would say is play what you enjoy, if you can't make MTT's a winning proposition, then don't play them as no-one likes losing!