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Line checks please

SlykllistSlykllist Member Posts: 2,888
edited July 2013 in The Poker Clinic

All from final table of a £2.30 BH, table was really quite passive with nobody making any moves or getting out of line.  Most interested in thoughts on bet sizings but any comments welcome.  The second one, I hate pretty much everything I did in the hand so expect to be ridiculed :)

PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
45ten Small blind  800.00 800.00 12915.00
bobbyboy33 Big blind  1600.00 2400.00 17242.50
  Your hole cards
  • 9
  • 9
     
ASHWILL Fold     
hammer53 Fold     
phelper73 Call  1600.00 4000.00 46872.92
Slykllist Raise  4000.00 8000.00 60774.58
45ten Call  3200.00 11200.00 9715.00
bobbyboy33 Call  2400.00 13600.00 14842.50
phelper73 Call  2400.00 16000.00 44472.92
Flop
   
  • 8
  • 3
  • 4
     
45ten Check     
bobbyboy33 Check     
phelper73 Check     
Slykllist Bet  15000.00 31000.00 45774.58
45ten Fold     
bobbyboy33 All-in  14842.50 45842.50 0.00
phelper73 Fold     
Slykllist Unmatched bet  157.50 45685.00 45932.08
bobbyboy33 Show
  • 8
  • 8
   
Slykllist Show
  • 9
  • 9
   
Turn
   
  • 10
     
River
   
  • 6
     
bobbyboy33 Win Three 8s 45685.00  45685.00
PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
45ten Small blind  1000.00 1000.00 10115.00
bobbyboy33 Big blind  2000.00 3000.00 33285.00
  Your hole cards
  • 8
  • 7
     
ASHWILL Fold     
hammer53 Raise  4000.00 7000.00 37820.00
phelper73 Fold     
Slykllist Call  4000.00 11000.00 47732.08
45ten Fold     
bobbyboy33 Call  2000.00 13000.00 31285.00
Flop
   
  • J
  • 9
  • 9
     
bobbyboy33 Check     
hammer53 Bet  2000.00 15000.00 35820.00
Slykllist Call  2000.00 17000.00 45732.08
bobbyboy33 Fold     
Turn
   
  • K
     
hammer53 Check     
Slykllist Check     
River
   
  • 10
     
hammer53 All-in  35820.00 52820.00 0.00
Slykllist Fold     
hammer53 Muck     
hammer53 Win  17000.00  17000.00
hammer53 Return  35820.00 0.00 52820.00
PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
phelper73 Small blind  1000.00 1000.00 41672.92
Slykllist Big blind  2000.00 3000.00 43732.08
  Your hole cards
  • J
  • A
     
45ten Fold     
bobbyboy33 Call  2000.00 5000.00 27285.00
ASHWILL Call  2000.00 7000.00 43260.00
hammer53 Call  2000.00 9000.00 51820.00
phelper73 Call  1000.00 10000.00 40672.92
Slykllist Raise  6000.00 16000.00 37732.08
bobbyboy33 Call  6000.00 22000.00 21285.00
ASHWILL Fold     
hammer53 Fold     
phelper73 Fold     
Flop
   
  • K
  • 8
  • 6
     
Slykllist Bet  8000.00 30000.00 29732.08
bobbyboy33 All-in  21285.00 51285.00 0.00
Slykllist Fold     
bobbyboy33 Muck     
bobbyboy33 Win  38000.00  38000.00
bobbyboy33 Return  13285.00 0.00 51285.00
PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
bobbyboy33 Small blind  1250.00 1250.00 51285.00
ASHWILL Big blind  2500.00 3750.00 40760.00
  Your hole cards
  • J
  • Q
     
hammer53 Fold     
phelper73 Fold     
Slykllist Call  2500.00 6250.00 25982.08
45ten Fold     
bobbyboy33 Call  1250.00 7500.00 50035.00
ASHWILL Check     
Flop
   
  • Q
  • 5
  • 3
     
bobbyboy33 Bet  2500.00 10000.00 47535.00
ASHWILL Fold     
Slykllist Raise  10000.00 20000.00 15982.08
bobbyboy33 All-in  47535.00 67535.00 0.00
Slykllist All-in  15982.08 83517.08 0.00
bobbyboy33 Unmatched bet  24052.92 59464.16 24052.92
bobbyboy33 Show
  • 10
  • Q
   
Slykllist Show
  • J
  • Q
   
Turn
   
  • 10
     
River
   
  • 3
     
bobbyboy33 Win Two Pairs, Queens and 10s 59464.16  83517.08
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Comments

  • jams88jams88 Member Posts: 694
    edited July 2013
    Hand 1 is fine just Unlucky don't really like getting that many callers but nice flop for it.

    Hand 2 12 bigs is 2 small a stack to be flatting SC even in poistion. Given that you have i think you need to bluff raise the flop or just flop otf i suppose we are getting odds to call for a gutshot but meh i prefer a fold pre or a 3bet bluff if they are all being passive.

    Hand 3 Shove pre so many limpers never going to feel great on any flop but probably have the strongest hand atm just shove take the dead money in the pot

    Hand 4 Raise pre. Flop is fine imo
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  • Jac35Jac35 Member Posts: 6,492
    edited July 2013
    Hand 1 
    You asked about bet sizing so on that front,  personally, I raise a little more pre. Flop I bet less than you did. Outcome is the same anyhow.
    Hands 2 and 3
    Jams has nailed that.
    Hand 4 
    Raise pre
    Flat flop, on this occasion it worked, in that we got all the money in good. 
    However, generally I believe all we're achieving by raising flop on a dry board is folding out worse and called by better.

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  • profman15profman15 Member Posts: 1,808
    edited July 2013
    Hi S

    HD I don't see any problem considering opponents stack sizes.

    hd 2 I prefer 3x raise pre if i decided to play even as i'd prefer to take blinds initially though could flop nice. I would not call the flop as idiot end of str plus poss fh lurks. .I'd either raise or fold. On top of this my stack size doesn't really have the scope to keep trying to hit.

    hd3 22 BB's mmm tricky. Be nice to shove and squeeze but number of callers is a worry. More tempted to call and save for a better spot i feel. You could always hit that miracle flop Sly. 

    hd 4 Happy to raise but shove on flop immediately. Don't think i'd shove pre though 16bb's as similar stack in bb who would fancy calling with Ax or KX then 60:40 dog and you then need to hit.
     
    Not looked at others so apologies if repeated or wrong by concensus of opinion. One difference is that this is probably a higher buy-in than i play so more thought would be given to why you were doing things i expect. In some i play i'm sure the guys flips a coin in order to decide if he is calling or folding lol.

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  • chicknMeltchicknMelt Member Posts: 1,159
    edited July 2013
    hand 1 - raise smaller pre. 2x is plenty, especially at this stage of the tournament. if people are calling 2x, they are rarely folding to 2.5x or 3x. can you think of any hands you would call a 2x but not a 2.5x? 

    flop is fine, bit of a cooler.

    hand 2,3 agree with Jams88. for hand 3 - who limps and calls a shove? - the only person who could do that and have you in bad shape is the original limper trying to slow play a monster. get it in all day long and pick up some dead money. you pick up roughly 25% of your stack for free if everyone folds + you are rarely going to be worse than 50/50ish if you get a call + its the final table and people are playing passive/scared. an easy shove imo.

    hand 4 - NEVER limp in an unopened pot. its just fishy.you give away the strength of your hand and you give up the chance to have the betting lead (VERY important) - when people limp an unopened pot 95% of the time is a medium strength hand like suited connectors, small pockets, weak aces and hands like yours. I LOVE playing against limpers. yum yum.

    agree with others interpretation of your flop play, a call is best since you fold out worse hands (most of the time) and get action from better hands by raising. Tempt them to keep bluffing/value betting with worse by just calling.
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  • Jac35Jac35 Member Posts: 6,492
    edited July 2013
    Chicken
    Hand one, there was a limper already
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  • percival09percival09 Member Posts: 3,804
    edited July 2013
    Hand 1 - bet smaller otf but w/e, guess it's fine multiway w/ fish & the nuts

    Hand 2 - fold pre. Fold otf. Bet ott. This would be a decent spot otf deeper or something because we just have like millions of backdoors and have tonnes of turns that give us equity/good bluff cards. 

    Mehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh otr. Just cry at how bad we played it really :-) Iso'ing the limper is also bad because he has like 18bb and there are 2 shorties in the blinds. Muck......... IT

    Hand 3 - ***K me. Incred spot just to ship pre. If it's a BH we're just getting called in every spot. We have the nuts lol. Check pre>>raise 3/4x with the stack sizes

    Hand 4 - Just ship it pre. We have 11bb, I don't think it's strong enough to raise/call off, and I don't like open/folding, and I definitely don't like limping. We have a hand that has decent equity against a lot of hands, but by shipping we have more chance of making hands that we're behind to fold, like A9/AT/KT/KQ etc

    Not meaning to be rude in any comments. It's just early and I haven't played poker in over 6 hours. I get excited. 


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  • chicknMeltchicknMelt Member Posts: 1,159
    edited July 2013
    ok, didnt see the limper in hand one.like the sizing then :)
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  • Jac35Jac35 Member Posts: 6,492
    edited July 2013
    In Response to Re: Line checks please:
    ok, didnt see the limper in hand one.like the sizing then :)
    Posted by chicknMelt
    :)
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  • GELDYGELDY Member Posts: 5,203
    edited July 2013
    3 Shove
    4 don't limp
    Others sure might bet some of them more others a bit less but generally result unchanged best to focus on the hands 3 and 4 type plays


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