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Primo - TPTK on Wet Board v Maniac
Lambert180
Member Posts: 12,197
I did post this hand on the live show thread hoping to see villian's hand but they didn't get round to showing it, and I'd had a table move by then anyway.
Anyone who was watching the show will have an idea of the opponent (the one that had an enormous chip lead from about 9pm - 11pm). Was running.... god-like, massively over-valueing hands like TPWK. Calling raises very wide pre then being very aggro postflop when hitting any pair, any draw. Have seen him clickback a dry J-high flop with J5o. Bet sizing is pretty bad (too big all the time).
His usual MO is something along the lines of pot, pot, pot lol. If he raises postflop, then it's ALWAYS bigger than the size of the pot.
Did I play scared here given these reads or do you think despite all that I still have to give him credit for having a hand here and just let it go?
I know I may have been playing scared cos at this point my stack was massive for the stage of the tournament, I think I was 2nd in chips and he was the only person that could bust me (I'd have about 100 chips left). I know if I call the turn I'm almost certainly getting shoved on on the river. He was mental and can show up with some wose hands (I think) but even crazy players have a hand sometimes and just thought there was better spots to try and stack him.
Anyone who was watching the show will have an idea of the opponent (the one that had an enormous chip lead from about 9pm - 11pm). Was running.... god-like, massively over-valueing hands like TPWK. Calling raises very wide pre then being very aggro postflop when hitting any pair, any draw. Have seen him clickback a dry J-high flop with J5o. Bet sizing is pretty bad (too big all the time).
His usual MO is something along the lines of pot, pot, pot lol. If he raises postflop, then it's ALWAYS bigger than the size of the pot.
Did I play scared here given these reads or do you think despite all that I still have to give him credit for having a hand here and just let it go?
I know I may have been playing scared cos at this point my stack was massive for the stage of the tournament, I think I was 2nd in chips and he was the only person that could bust me (I'd have about 100 chips left). I know if I call the turn I'm almost certainly getting shoved on on the river. He was mental and can show up with some wose hands (I think) but even crazy players have a hand sometimes and just thought there was better spots to try and stack him.
| Player | Action | Cards | Amount | Pot | Balance |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| WHOAMI196 | Small blind | 30.00 | 30.00 | 5402.25 | |
| basty2010 | Big blind | 60.00 | 90.00 | 3460.00 | |
| Your hole cards |
| ||||
| nozz3r | Fold | ||||
| yoyo | Fold | ||||
| Lambert180 | Raise | 180.00 | 270.00 | 11319.00 | |
| X | Call | 180.00 | 450.00 | 11270.00 | |
| WHOAMI196 | Fold | ||||
| basty2010 | Fold | ||||
| Flop | |||||
| |||||
| Lambert180 | Bet | 305.00 | 755.00 | 11014.00 | |
| X | Call | 305.00 | 1060.00 | 10965.00 | |
| Turn | |||||
| |||||
| Lambert180 | Bet | 610.00 | 1670.00 | 10404.00 | |
| X | Raise | 2890.00 | 4560.00 | 8075.00 | |
| Lambert180 | Fold | ||||
| X | Muck | ||||
| X | Win | 2280.00 | 10355.00 | ||
| X | Return | 2280.00 | 0.00 | 12635.00 | |
Comments
Based on what I saw on the show he wasn't a maniac, just a typical inexperienced player, overvaluing hands and clicking buttons.
When he raises I don't think there's any need to go any further. He probably isn't raising a draw and does he really raise KJ here? I suppose it's possible but more of his raising hands are just hands that beat you, I think.
As for checking the turn, DeucesLive, why wouldn't we think that he can keep calling us down with worse? If he raises I don't think he's likely to be semi-bluffing a draw after just calling the flop, and I wouldn't think that he's raising many worse value hands. Draws are certainly a part of his range that we can get value from with a bet. Even though most players overrate how likely flush or straight draws are, we certainly can't ignore them and there are lots of cards that change the texture of the board on the river. I don't think it's a way ahead/way behind situation... I think, given what we've seen from him and his tendency to overvalue hands, that we can also be called by lots of Kx and perhaps some Qx hands. I wouldn't like checking the turn.
I think bet-fold on the turn is fine.
Look at it this way, at no point here do we want to start raising, am I correct? So the options are;
Bet turn, get raised. Probably can't call, have to fold.
I don't mind checking the turn now, as it does seem he's going to bet wider than I thought. I had previously been thinking "a lot of the time he will just check back Qx, JT or two hearts here, won't he?" I'm forced to re-evaluate that line of thinking now.
I have to now agree with calling him down after his raise. I wouldn't rule out the KQ having flatted on the flop and nor would I rule out the 7 but I suppose against his apparent range, we have to call.
check it too em and call till you run out of chips
if they station bet untill you run out of chips
FWIW oppo probably got a 7 )
you probably have to question why oppo doesn't raise the flop and why now the turn, if you have reads that are correct then surely oppo raises flop. Unless oppo is looking for any possible scare card on the turn to rep.
If oppo is a maniac then they raise flop surely, raising turn is quite a considered play unless they calling flop with draw or 7.
Your reads kinda don't apply to to this hand ?
You do not mention if they raise flop 100% or flop & turn 50/50.
Massive differance to raising flop and to raise turn looking at the action.
He had something ridiculous like 35k chips reallly early when 2nd place had about 12k.
I admit I took a safer route that maybe missing out on a slight +EV spot and this was cos I was 2nd in chips and he was...
1) the only guy who could destroy my stack
2) imo not a very good player so I could find much better spots to take his chips
Bear in mind if this all goes in it's going to be like a 400xBB pot @ 30/60 of the Primo. I had good control of the table in terms of knowing who I was going after etc and just didn't think I needed to risk a 200xBB in like the slowest structure on Sky when I had no idea where I was.
FWIW, I'm pretty certain he had a 7, and I did post it on the show to try to find out lol but they didn't show it.
Please post it to be shown. I don't see enough hands that confuse me.
There's not enough hands that get shown... full stop.
But yeh he's aggro but there is obv some method to his madness... think he if flats the flop with Kx or Qx it's not with the intention of raising the turn with the same unimproved hand. Likewise if he flats a FD, he's flatting it again on the turn imo. So I reckon his range is more heavily weighted towards hands that beat me and his raise size is just horrible
As played call now and call river (unless it's a really good river card then shove river).
Against a player like you describe I really don't mind checking the flop and letting them barrel everything.