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AK facing 2 all ins. Call or fold??

davelufcdavelufc Member Posts: 1,374
edited July 2013 in The Poker Clinic
£11 BH , (i won the seat through the 7pm freeroll).

Only level 2, not noticed any maniacs at the table. Can i call here?, note that there are still 2 players to act after me!

Thoughts please.
PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
davelufc Small blind  15.00 15.00 1582.50
wi03 Big blind  30.00 45.00 1825.00
 Your hole cards
  • A
  • K
   
bar4004 Call  30.00 75.00 5127.50
chang698 Fold     
kebir Call  30.00 105.00 1470.00
heather222 Call  30.00 135.00 1355.00
davelufc Raise  210.00 345.00 1372.50
wi03 Call  195.00 540.00 1630.00
bar4004 Call  195.00 735.00 4932.50
kebir All-in  1470.00 2205.00 0.00
heather222 All-in  1355.00 3560.00 0.00
davelufc  ? 
«1

Comments

  • Lambert180Lambert180 Member Posts: 12,197
    edited July 2013
    Meh, if you fancy a gamble go for it, it's pretty unlikely you'll be against AA/KK.

    You got in through a freeroll, go win a flip and you're freerolling a profit with a decent stack :)
  • BorinLonerBorinLoner Member Posts: 3,863
    edited July 2013
    These two are overlimpers, so I'd be shocked if they had AA or KK. The only problem is that one could have one of your outs covered while the other has a pair.

    Either way, I think the value is there for a call. Sometimes players limp AA or KK but how often do they overlimp with them? Not that often, I think, and there's loads of dead money.
  • GELDYGELDY Member Posts: 5,203
    edited July 2013
    Not easy
    limp Shove generally the near nuts
    over limp weakens the story
    but still ........
    No need to go to war at this stage
    I probably fold
  • hhyftrftdrhhyftrftdr Member Posts: 8,036
    edited July 2013
    Go for it.
  • profman15profman15 Member Posts: 1,808
    edited July 2013
    Hi Dave

    Nice to see you got there through FR. TBH you need to catch and i'd be pretty sure that some of your aces or kings are involved here so feel your odds are less than they might be. I feel as its so early that taking a punt wouldn't be for me . I fold and prefer to drive the hands not look to catch as no doubt you needed to. Hope it went well m8.
  • calcalfoldcalcalfold Member Posts: 978
    edited July 2013
    Fold and high five a honey badger
  • DeucesLiveDeucesLive Member Posts: 839
    edited July 2013
    I call here. 2 allins, and you're only really scared of AA/KK.

    Admittedly, BL's point about one person having your outs covered with another having a pair is hugely likely. But it's also very very possible they have hands like 99-QQ, and are overvaluing.

    I like your odds of an early triple up, with 2 bounties to boot. And with players to act behind that could get involved, hey- whatever, this is a dream spot IMO. You either bust and shrug, or get a massive chipboost that can let you dominate for the vast majority of the tournament, and give you a great shot at the win.

    My point of view is it's far better to bust in the first level than let your chips bleed away and either end up bubble boy or just creeping in the money. You're way better off winning 1 in 10 tourneys and busting in the first level for the other 9, than creeping into the money 3/4 times out of 10 and never winning, and wasting many hours fruitlessly getting nowhere in tournaments.
  • The_Don90The_Don90 Member Posts: 9,814
    edited July 2013
    I just cant get my chips in quick enouhg
  • NColleyNColley Member Posts: 1,178
    edited July 2013
    Seems like a trivial fold to me.

    If the two player behind us didn't cold call the iso then I'd be more inclined to call it off but basically its almost certain that some of your outs are gone.

  • DeucesLiveDeucesLive Member Posts: 839
    edited July 2013
    Why is it a trivial fold? Who says you *need* outs? Maybe you're the one taking their outs, if you're up against hands like AQ/AJ/KQ...I've seen shoves from worse. Or you could easily be up against two underpairs, again- people can shove any pair easily.
  • NColleyNColley Member Posts: 1,178
    edited July 2013
    It's too much effort to explain why I'd fold and given the posts you already made you'd still not accept the explanation so I'm not going to bother.

    The short version is basically: with the skill level of the typical player in these fields I can make an edge fold here. Having 40bb at bb30 is not much of an issue just a slight inconvieniance.
  • rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,945
    edited July 2013
    If you think you have >30% versus their range then it's a call

    I feel nothing - it's just a maths game yo!
  • davelufcdavelufc Member Posts: 1,374
    edited July 2013
    Cheers all, opinions seem split on this one!! I must admit, i was quite pleased when i saw the cards.

    Fist pump turn card, then it all changed on the river... boooom!! Still got a bounty though.!!

    PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
    davelufc Small blind  15.00 15.00 1582.50
    wi03 Big blind  30.00 45.00 1825.00
     Your hole cards
    • A
    • K
       
    bar4004 Call  30.00 75.00 5127.50
    chang698 Fold     
    kebir Call  30.00 105.00 1470.00
    heather222 Call  30.00 135.00 1355.00
    davelufc Raise  210.00 345.00 1372.50
    wi03 Call  195.00 540.00 1630.00
    bar4004 Call  195.00 735.00 4932.50
    kebir All-in  1470.00 2205.00 0.00
    heather222 All-in  1355.00 3560.00 0.00
    davelufc Call  1275.00 4835.00 97.50
    wi03 All-in  1630.00 6465.00 0.00
    bar4004 Fold     
    davelufc All-in  97.50 6562.50 0.00
    wi03 Unmatched bet  257.50 6305.00 257.50
    davelufc Show
    • A
    • K
       
    wi03 Show
    • A
    • Q
       
    kebir Show
    • J
    • J
       
    heather222 Show
    • 4
    • 4
       
    Flop
      
    • 9
    • 8
    • 3
       
    Turn
      
    • K
       
    River
      
    • 4
       
    heather222 Win Three 4s 5765.00  5765.00
    davelufc Win Pair of Kings 540.00  540.00



    3 hands later.........   Ak = pants!!
    PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
    chang698 Small blind  20.00 20.00 2445.00
    Richie_L Big blind  40.00 60.00 2112.50
     Your hole cards
    • A
    • K
       
    heather222 Fold     
    davelufc All-in  252.50 312.50 0.00
    wi03 Fold     
    bar4004 Fold     
    chang698 Call  232.50 545.00 2212.50
    Richie_L Call  212.50 757.50 1900.00
    Flop
      
    • 7
    • 3
    • Q
       
    chang698 Check     
    Richie_L Check     
    Turn
      
    • J
       
    chang698 Check     
    Richie_L Check     
    River
      
    • 9
       
    chang698 Check     
    Richie_L Check     
    davelufc Show
    • A
    • K
       
    chang698 Show
    • 2
    • 2
       
    Richie_L Muck
    • A
    • 5
       
    chang698 Win Pair of 2s 757.50  2970.00
  • Lambert180Lambert180 Member Posts: 12,197
    edited July 2013
    Meh unlucky, these are the kinda hands I'd expect to be against, at least one worse Ax and flipping V pairs and I'd be happy to take that given the situation.

    You got a head though, and got in for free so that's an ROI of infinity :)
  • davelufcdavelufc Member Posts: 1,374
    edited July 2013
    True Lambert, thought i was in with a shout!!

    Just noticed my exit hand while i was getting HH for this post,  3 hands later!!!

    Some chips missing as i limped into a pot with K 10 o/s in between!!! lol my bad.

    AK = pants!!!!
    PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
    chang698 Small blind  20.00 20.00 2445.00
    Richie_L Big blind  40.00 60.00 2112.50
     Your hole cards
    • A
    • K
       
    heather222 Fold     
    davelufc All-in  252.50 312.50 0.00
    wi03 Fold     
    bar4004 Fold     
    chang698 Call  232.50 545.00 2212.50
    Richie_L Call  212.50 757.50 1900.00
    Flop
      
    • 7
    • 3
    • Q
       
    chang698 Check     
    Richie_L Check     
    Turn
      
    • J
       
    chang698 Check     
    Richie_L Check     
    River
      
    • 9
       
    chang698 Check     
    Richie_L Check     
    davelufc Show
    • A
    • K
       
    chang698 Show
    • 2
    • 2
       
    Richie_L Muck
    • A
    • 5
       
    chang698 Win Pair of 2s 757.50  2970.00
  • BorinLonerBorinLoner Member Posts: 3,863
    edited July 2013
    In Response to Re: AK facing 2 all ins. Call or fold??:
    Meh unlucky, these are the kinda hands I'd expect to be against, at least one worse Ax and flipping V pairs and I'd be happy to take that given the situation. You got a head though, and got in for free so that's an ROI of infinity :)
    Posted by Lambert180
    Yeah, I'd have made the call too. I think it's fine.

    What does Scope say about your ROI if you've only ever played and cashed in freerolls?
  • NColleyNColley Member Posts: 1,178
    edited July 2013
    In Response to Re: AK facing 2 all ins. Call or fold??:
    Meh unlucky, these are the kinda hands I'd expect to be against, at least one worse Ax and flipping V pairs and I'd be happy to take that given the situation. You got a head though, and got in for free so that's an ROI of infinity :)
    Posted by Lambert180
    you're happy to bust 75% of time vs those specific hands?
  • Lambert180Lambert180 Member Posts: 12,197
    edited July 2013
    Well I wouldn't be expecting the call behind so I would expect to be 3 way V the JJ and 44 in which case we're 35% to triple up. I'm not a 'bounty hunter' but we also get 2 x bounties so about £10 (I assume they haven't taken any heads themselves) which is a bonus on top of the fact we already have the right price.

    As it is, we go 4 way so we're now 26-27% to quadruple up and take 3 bounties (so £15ish).

    I'm not one for just pure gambling early doors in an MTT but we're getting the right price and imo if we're a good player and win this race, we're in with a pretty amazing shout of crushing, taking a lot of heads and going really deep.

    It's close like, and I don't hate folding but if we're rolled I reckon we can go for it to build a stack. FWIW, even in £11 BHs, I've seen some just plain embarrassing all ins and all in calls even @ 15/30 for the purposes of chasing bounties so I wouldn't be a complete shock if we saw something like AK v 77 v QJ v AT and the like quite often.
  • Batkin88Batkin88 Member Posts: 1,682
    edited July 2013

    Shame I saw this late, I personally think this is a fold but not because of the two all ins but because of the two behind. Wii is shortened himself and called your raise he pretty much is calling regardless and then if wii calls bar should call regardless of cards as the value is beautiful. I'm surprised you only got one call behind here tbh.

  • F_IvanovicF_Ivanovic Member Posts: 2,410
    edited July 2013
    If anything the 2 callers behind makes this more of a reason to call because of the potential dead money in the pot. OK if they both call then it's going to be 5 way and less chance of winning, but if you do win you now have a massive chip stack. And with AK you should have more than your fair share of equity.
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