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did i think this out the right way

craigcu12craigcu12 Member Posts: 3,960
edited July 2013 in The Poker Clinic
hands like QQ are not what we expect to fold preflop but when I saw what had happened here I was thinking surely KK or AA was in the spot light
the first raise I thought could be anything but when the next raise happens I start thinking the weakest of hands would be AKs or 1010+ so when the next guy shoves I am thinking surely QQ KK or AA is the only hands left and their is still the two who raised before that jam who need to decide what they will do.
BADBILL Small blind  15.00 15.00 1955.00
craigcu12 Big blind  30.00 45.00 3725.00
  Your hole cards
  • Q
  • Q
     
SEBASTLAD Raise  60.00 105.00 1735.00
goldnballz Raise  180.00 285.00 3137.50
THEHOFF07 Call  180.00 465.00 2982.50
BADBILL All-in  1955.00 2420.00 0.00
craigcu12 Fold
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Comments

  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH Member Posts: 17,929
    edited July 2013

    Yep, good thought process & good fold for the right reasons :)
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  • LARSON7LARSON7 Member Posts: 4,491
    edited July 2013
    If it's a BH, espec a 2pound or 5pound 1 just go for it, he can have a lot more than just KK or Aces
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  • DeucesLiveDeucesLive Member Posts: 839
    edited July 2013
    Important to tell us what the tourney is, that has a huge bearing on whether it's a good fold.

    If it's a DYM or even STT, easy fold. Donkathon bounty hunter, you can reliably widen people's ranges massively.
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  • craigcu12craigcu12 Member Posts: 3,960
    edited July 2013
    this tournament itself was the mini BH so as well as the poor players I could see it also having some decent ones too.
    maybe I should have looked at his sharkscope because that would have changed everything and a call would certainly still have been made.
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  • NColleyNColley Member Posts: 1,178
    edited July 2013
    ya gl searching someone on sharkscope before you time out 
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  • BorinLonerBorinLoner Member Posts: 3,863
    edited July 2013
    In Response to Re: did i think this out the right way:
    Yep, good thought process & good fold for the right reasons :)
    Posted by DOHHHHHHH
    +1

    The cold 4-bet shove from the small blind really should mean great strength. In a vacuum I think a fold is best. As others have said, it does depend a lot on how the villains have been playing but, generally speaking, the fold is fine.
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  • calcalfoldcalcalfold Member Posts: 978
    edited July 2013
    Not folding here

    Having checked sharkscope, very much never folding
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  • Batkin88Batkin88 Member Posts: 1,682
    edited July 2013
    Your thought process is correct so it is a fold, even in a bounty hunter I wouldn't want to go in with QQ here with 2/3 possible callers behind.

    I don't think relying on sharkscopes stats will help you here. Although there are arguments either way the right thing is you had a thought process and you went with it, if you snap called and then thought about it you would regret the call.
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  • F_IvanovicF_Ivanovic Member Posts: 2,410
    edited July 2013
    Never folding QQ here if it is indeed a BH. The first raise, whilst UTG was only a min-r. This means that goldenballz raising range is not going to be quite as tight as it might if it was a standard UTG raise. Someone calls behind, and the SB shoves. To me, this shove does not suggest KK or AA. If he had them hands he would probably be making a smaller re-raise size. He's probably seen the dead money in the pot and with a reasonably strong hand and a less than starting stack has tried to pick up all the dead money with a shove.

    His range could be KQ, AJ+ and 99+. With QQ we have more than enough equity to call.
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  • Lambert180Lambert180 Member Posts: 12,197
    edited July 2013
    Yeah I'm not folding here in an £11 or smaller BH.
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  • craigcu12craigcu12 Member Posts: 3,960
    edited July 2013
    I can't see him attempting a shove with KQ or AJ maybe AK but TBH with it being so early it didn't feel worth enough to call this if it was AA or KK I would be asking myself what got me to call it in the first place and if it were AK it might have got me a bit tilt.
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  • craigcu12craigcu12 Member Posts: 3,960
    edited July 2013
    it turned out that I would have been ahead but he hit the set and AK would have hit too
    so it was a good fold after all.
    BADBILL Small blind  15.00 15.00 1955.00
    craigcu12 Big blind  30.00 45.00 3725.00
      Your hole cards
    • Q
    • Q
    		     
    SEBASTLAD Raise  60.00 105.00 1735.00
    goldnballz Raise  180.00 285.00 3137.50
    THEHOFF07 Call  180.00 465.00 2982.50
    BADBILL All-in  1955.00 2420.00 0.00
    craigcu12 Fold     
    SEBASTLAD All-in  1735.00 4155.00 0.00
    goldnballz Fold     
    THEHOFF07 Fold     
    BADBILL Unmatched bet  175.00 3980.00 175.00
    BADBILL Show
    • 10
    • 10
    		   
    SEBASTLAD Show
    • A
    • 8
    		   
    Flop
       
    • 6
    • K
    • 2
    		     
    Turn
       
    • 10
    		     
    River
       
    • 3
    		     
    BADBILL Win Three 10s 3980.00  4155.00
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  • Lambert180Lambert180 Member Posts: 12,197
    edited July 2013
    Not being results orientated but this imo is why we shouldn't fold, cos he will do this with TT, JJ, maybe 99, also AK and AQ and SEBASTLAD... well... there's not much to say about his play lol.
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  • splashiessplashies Member Posts: 3,680
    edited July 2013
    In Response to Re: did i think this out the right way:
    it turned out that I would have been ahead but he hit the set and AK would have hit too so it was a good fold after all. BADBILL Small blind   15.00 15.00 1955.00 craigcu12 Big blind   30.00 45.00 3725.00   Your hole cards Q Q       SEBASTLAD Raise   60.00 105.00 1735.00 goldnballz Raise   180.00 285.00 3137.50 THEHOFF07 Call   180.00 465.00 2982.50 BADBILL All-in   1955.00 2420.00 0.00 craigcu12 Fold         SEBASTLAD All-in   1735.00 4155.00 0.00 goldnballz Fold         THEHOFF07 Fold         BADBILL Unmatched bet   175.00 3980.00 175.00 BADBILL Show 10 10       SEBASTLAD Show A 8       Flop     6 K 2       Turn     10       River     3       BADBILL Win Three 10s 3980.00   4155.00
    Posted by craigcu12
    Really? Where's the logic in that?
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  • Lambert180Lambert180 Member Posts: 12,197
    edited July 2013
    In Response to Re: did i think this out the right way:
    In Response to Re: did i think this out the right way : Really? Where's the logic in that?
    Posted by splashies
    Didn't you see? The TT made a set lol, so we would have lost ;)
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  • F_IvanovicF_Ivanovic Member Posts: 2,410
    edited July 2013
    In Response to Re: did i think this out the right way:
    Not being results orientated but this imo is why we shouldn't fold, cos he will do this with TT, JJ, maybe 99, also AK and AQ and SEBASTLAD... well... there's not much to say about his play lol.
    Posted by Lambert180
    Exactly... and against this range we have 57%. If we take out AQo and 99 we still have 52%. I do think we can discount KK and AA somewhat aswell, making our equity even higher. Getting it in as a 55% eq fave in a tournament is a great spot to be in.
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  • Jac35Jac35 Member Posts: 6,491
    edited July 2013
    In Response to Re: did i think this out the right way:
    In Response to Re: did i think this out the right way : Exactly... and against this range we have 57%. If we take out AQo and 99 we still have 52%. I do think we can discount KK and AA somewhat aswell, making our equity even higher. Getting it in as a 55% eq fave in a tournament is a great spot to be in.
    Posted by F_Ivanovic
    Got to disagree with that.
    Getting it in with 55% at this stage of a tournament is hardly a good spot if you think you may have an edge.
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