20NL - Turn Sizing

Lambert180

Should we go bigger on the turn so our river is ship is smaller in comparison to the pot?

How big do you go?

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
ulsterfr30	Small blind		£0.10	£0.10	£23.72
pealead	Big blind		£0.20	£0.30	£19.65
	Your hole cards	10 J
rob1224	Fold
BigHawk89	Raise		£0.60	£0.90	£17.40
Donttelmum	Call		£0.60	£1.50	£28.48
Lambert180	Call		£0.60	£2.10	£26.92
ulsterfr30	Fold
pealead	Fold
Flop
		8 A 7
BigHawk89	Check
Donttelmum	Bet		£1.58	£3.68	£26.90
Lambert180	Call		£1.58	£5.26	£25.34
BigHawk89	Fold
Turn
		9
Donttelmum	Bet		£2.63	£7.89	£24.27
Lambert180	Raise		£6.30	£14.19	£19.04
Donttelmum	Call		£3.67	£17.86	£20.60
River
		10
Donttelmum	Check
Lambert180	All-in		£19.04	£36.90	£0.00
Donttelmum	Fold
Lambert180	Muck
Lambert180	Win		£16.96		£16.96
Lambert180	Return		£19.04	£0.90	£36.00

DeucesLive

Forget the turn sizing for a moment. The river ship is one of the worst I've ever seen on every level- you have a free check with a reasonable hand. There's 4 to the straight AND a flush on board. So first up, what is calling you that you beat? Basically nothing. If you get a call, you're splitting with a J at BEST. The only purpose you have here is to fold out Js to win the pot outright, so you're turning a strong showdown hand into a pure bluff. 

If you get called by a sole jack, you're paying a ton of rake more than you needed to. So that's another reason to lay it down.

Everything else is fine, I don't mind the turn sizing at all. A little more might just push you out from getting a call, that looks good to me.

Lambert180

Don't think DTM ever has a flush here. He's bet flop, bet turn and then been raised and decided to flat. Apart from the fact the Ad is out, and I have the Td so there aren't many FD combos he can turn up with, I think if he has a flush he's getting it in on the turn.

You're right tho, I'll be splitting sometimes (if he wants to fold a J then that's VERY good for me but I doubt he would). I think his most likely holding is almost certainly a set and he's calling the turn to try to house up.

Think it's pretty rare I'll be beat here so as JJ says 'I'm freerolling the call'. I think he will pay off with sets sometimes, literally depends what mood he's in.

DeucesLive

You're freerolling nothing. If you get called, you're splitting at worst IMO- and that means you're paying unnecessary rake. Not the same as freerolling.

Lambert180

As I said, DTM will pretty much never have a better hand than me. If he wants to fold the J-high straight as you suggest then I win an £18 pot that I would have otherwise split. He's never gonna have QJ ever unless it's with 1 diamond.

My hand granted isn't THAT strong given the board texture, but relative to his range it is, he has virtually no hands that play it this way and are the best hand. I guess it's a question of what you think of the opponent but imo he will definitely pay off with sets some of the time, and will practically never have a hand that beats me, so it is freerolling.

DeucesLive

If he's that good, he's not calling that board with a set. And he is indeed a good player.

rancid

raise more on turn

river shove

Lambert180

In Response to Re: 20NL - Turn Sizing:

raise more on turn river shove
Posted by rancid

Well yeah I'm thinking that lol...

What do you suggest raising on the turn to though?

River is a clear ship imo

rancid

£8ish

NColley

Shoving is just losing value. You need to think about what range your trying to get value from. All of the hands he can call on the turn either lost considerable relative strength, improved to the straight or missed altogether or he had the flush all along (obv we know he folds so flush can be discounted here)

Betting small can sometimes just be a giveaway that you have a strong hand and want to be called but what you'll often find is people will just call it off anyway with 2 pairs and sets, and if he folds well you have a cheap and profitable spot to bluff in too.