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Master Cash 12/12/09 - Make Your Play ONE.
Tikay10
Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 169,701
Usual thing - Vote on the Thread, & Post your comments on Thread. We'll analyse the hand on the Show, & read out as many of your Posts as possible.
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So, question ONE.
We are playing £1 - £2.
Villain is TAG.
Hero has £200, Villain has £415.
Hero has POSITION.
Villain RAISES £6.
We have 9h, 10h.
We CALL.
Everyone else declines to partake.
Flop = Kh, Ah, 3s.
Villain bets £8.
We CALL.
Turn, 5d.
So, Board now reads Kh, Ah, 3s, 5d.
Villain now CHECKS!
We BET £22.
Villain now Re-Raises it to £58. Oops.
Do we.....
Fold?
Call?
3 bet shove?
Use the Voting Option to registrer your Vote please, & explain on Thread what you Voted, and WHY.
Comments
We're certainly not ahead. :-)
We won't be able to get the villain to fold with a shove as he's shown extreme strength.
We're getting pot odds of about 3/1 to hit a 4/1 shot for the flush and we're unlikely to get paid much if we hit it (even though we have position).
I wouldn't object to people calling though. We certainly shouldn't lose any more money on the hand (if the flush doesn't come we fold and, if it does come, we can be VERY confident that we're ahead) and we could expect to get paid a little if we hit.
So as we are not getting the odds to call I fold.
Solar
£36 invested, £36 more to call, leaving me with £128. The implied odds are good as the opponent has me covered.
If I call here, I'm telling my opponent I'm on a draw, as I would recognise the draw on the board and protect my made hand, If I had one. - So I'm eliminating the call option.
What does my opponent have? Everything or nothing, hes trying to price me out of my draw, to protect his hand. I believe he is very strong, maybe top 2 pair, or a set. Therofre, my 9 outs could shrink as the 3 or 5 of hearts is no longer any good, and could cost me my stack when I think its the money card. I could be drawing to 7 outs. Im not getting the price to call.
The re raise/shove suits him down to the ground as he will have gotten me to commit my whole stack with ten high and a weak flush draw. - Thats his job done and I might as well go play roulette.
Hes more than doubled his starting stack playing TAG, hes no donkey, and hes not fooling around here, Hes playing strong aggressive poker to get people off these sort of hands. Well played, getchya nxt time!
I cant resist those odds and being on the button.
The river will be interesting if he checks, can i jam and get him to fold if i miss? HMMMM..... Prob not, but it cant be ruled out as a move...
With 4/1 i would call for the implied odds but its more like 5/1 with all the 4hearts already out of the pack, as dohhhhhh said the 3 and the 5 of hearts might be no good and would cost us are whole stack.
So i would fold.
Im not so sure position on the river really matters, Its the read on the opponent here which defines the hand, therefore tells you how to act. Just flatting and waiting for a heart really isnt an option, because what can you put him on.....for u to believe hes gonna pay u off on the river?
It is just irrelevant.
1st scenario - If a heart comes on the river and ur first to act, and you move all in - He may call he may not.
2nd scenario - If a heart comes on the river and he checks (hypothetically), you move all in - He may call he may not.
(Before ppl comment.....if a heart doesnt come, and u still move in, why not just do this on the turn....?)
Its the same decision, if the heart comes out he is never gonna bet out, unless it makes his house....
Either way you're gonna be moving all in with your flush, u have to do this to justify your call on the turn. Position post turn here is absolutely useless!
DOHH
Check back turn.
As played, fold.
I'd fold without a doubt in this situation. The villain is a a tag and has doubled his stack, he's not raising with air. I would have raised on the flop and re-assessed the situation after he acted.
TAG must have a hand to check raise you.
I know that I could not call on a flush draw to a player that has check raised me.
Even if I did hit the flush, I am not guaranteed to be ahead.
Reading through here....people seem to believe this guy has a hand just because he is described as tag!
Tag players do not always have a hand at this stage, they play strong holdings pre flop (tight) and they play them strongly (aggressive). Strong holdings pre flop 6 handed include 77 88 99 10 10 JJ QQ, as well as AA KK and AK, and maybe even QK and QK suited.
The idea of the TAG image is to convince players they have the hand, and so make us fold these types of hands! - alot of the time they will have it, and get paid.
There is a good chance he has a big hand, even more so by the way he has played it, but he cud play pocket tens or even pocket 7s exactly the same way! - It isn't a foregone conclusion that he has the hand, its an instinctive call/read, the other 2 9's and 10's cud still be live!
This doesnt change my decision, I still fold, I just dont think it should be written in stone that the fella has a hand here.
Just a thought!
DOHH