What are you doing here?

Batkin88

Is it just a flat as if raised we are only getting called by better? Or could it be a fold as we are likely calling to split at best?

Or raise, but I can't find an argument for that apart from flush draws paying an extra charge.

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
rupert1969	Small blind		£0.25	£0.25	£51.70
mrdavies	Big blind		£0.50	£0.75	£34.40
	Your hole cards	7 5
stacker59	Raise		£1.50	£2.25	£108.14
raychurc23	Call		£1.50	£3.75	£46.25
Batkin88	Call		£1.50	£5.25	£117.85
Rickyyyy	Fold
rupert1969	Fold
mrdavies	Call		£1.00	£6.25	£33.40
Flop
		4 2 3
mrdavies	Check
stacker59	Bet		£3.50	£9.75	£104.64
raychurc23	Call		£3.50	£13.25	£42.75
Batkin88	Call		£3.50	£16.75	£114.35
mrdavies	Fold
Turn
		A
stacker59	Bet		£10.50	£27.25	£94.14
raychurc23	Call		£10.50	£37.75	£32.25
Batkin88	????

rancid

raise

Batkin88

In Response to Re: What are you doing here?:

raise
Posted by rancid

To how much and what are you doing if a) one comes back over the top? b) If both come back over the top?

Whats calling here apart from flush draws?

DOHHHHHHH

No1 ever has 56.

I'd raise looking for value from the fella in the middle, could even shove.

5x cc wud be sick.

Maybe click it, don't care if we lose stacker the other guy looks like he's going to be the value in this hand as played.

Stacker has a set a lot of the time. Probably AAA the most likely 1.

Raissssssse.

Weird spot tho, not been in this situation many times so might be totally wrong.

scrumdown

at best for u thinks split pot say one of them on flush draw  the bet got to think  got theace  or 65 suited then your beat only got dummy end of thr str8

Batkin88

POSTED IN WRONG SECTION CAN THESE BE MOVED PLEASE THERE ARE 2 THREADS!

Thanks

rancid

In Response to Re: What are you doing here?:

In Response to Re: What are you doing here? : To how much and what are you doing if a) one comes back over the top? b) If both come back over the top? Whats calling here apart from flush draws?
Posted by Batkin88

not raising to fold

who cares what they have, that's their problem

they gonna have enough to continue

you could flat turn, but may find it a lot harder getting money in on river
unless you want to fold your str

Batkin88

In Response to Re: What are you doing here?:

In Response to Re: What are you doing here? : not raising to fold who cares what they have, that's their problem they gonna have enough to continue you could flat turn, but may find it a lot harder getting money in on river unless you want to fold your str
Posted by rancid

I feel like such a nit right now lol.

I am never folding here but hoping to see a river which isn't a club, but yes as you stated I would struggle to get value here, unless they hold 56/55 and a non club 6 comes on the river.

Smitalos

Raising would be bad. Just flat.

rancid

In Response to Re: What are you doing here?:

Raising would be bad. Just flat.
Posted by Smitalos

You could be right, but it's raining outside and I don't think you have thought this through properly

I am kinda undecided so your going to have to make a very stroung case for the flat and not the raise.

thanks

DOHHHHHHH

In Response to Re: What are you doing here?:

In Response to Re: What are you doing here? : You could be right, but it's raining outside and I don't think you have thought this through properly I am kinda undecided so your going to have to make a very stroung case for the flat and not the raise. thanks
Posted by rancid

He just likes to be different.

Me, thee, and I donk call u have all said raise so he's obviously wrong! 

I know he doesn't like to mention it, but taking into account donks 3k profit, we've broke even this last few months between us. That's some achievement.

Top that Smitttmeister.

Smitalos

In Response to Re: What are you doing here?:

In Response to Re: What are you doing here? : He just likes to be different. Me, thee, and I donk call u have all said raise so he's obviously wrong!  I know he doesn't like to mention it, but taking into account donks 3k profit, we've broke even this last few months between us. That's some achievement. Top that Smitttmeister.
Posted by DOHHHHHHH

If by different, you mean, right? Then yes, yes I do :P

Hehe, smugness aside, imo, it's a pretty trivial flat here. Going back to the fundamentals of poker...

What are we getting called by worse, and how likely is it?
44-AA - Almost certain, with an apparant 10 clean outs to 'boat-up'.
XXcc. - Debatable. Dependant on raise sizing.

Can we ever raise fold here, and if not, what hands would we be up against given a turn 3bet?
Ugh, I wouldn't be a huge fan of it, no.
65, 5Xcc - Likely [Crushed/Slight dog]
5X - Unlikely [Chop]
Random $paz w/set or FD - Highly Unlikely [We are decent favourite]

What's our equity when we get called, ahead Vs behind?
Called - A little more money goes in a decent favourite. No action on river from worse.
Raised - Chopping for stacks at best, slightly freerolled, or absolutely crushed. Albeit unlikely that villian has 56.

Can we get the same value from a river bet, as we do from a turn raise, a decent chunk of the time?
Yes.

Can we get in a turn raise AND a river bet, for value?
Unlikely.

Seeing as we can only get 1 more street of value here, given the information available, I go with a flat here and a river Vbet on good rivers. You're still bound to get called from sets if the flush draw bricks out, and you may even catch someone ****-stabbing the river, when we can just snap them off (unlikely, ik).

Long story short, we have a 5, and we rep a 5, and we're never getting 2 streets here unless villian is off his/her rocker, and hates money. Flat, underrep our hand, and get that value on the river. I also think a decent chunk of the time we're chopping here and just getting freerolled for stacks if we put a raise in.

Honestly? I think this spot (like many others) is completely villian dependant. It's not like you ever have a bluff range here so it's obvious to anyone with half a brain that you have 5X. It's just whether turning our hand face up and getting people to pay for binkage is more profitable than underrepping our hand with a flat, and letting people have equity for cheap while being put to some tougher river decisions.
[I could expand and go in-depth, but I'm tired, and CoD4 is calling for me. Enjoy what there is of my derpy brain in this post for a bit. Chowwwwwwwwww]

rancid

In Response to Re: What are you doing here?:

In Response to Re: What are you doing here? : If by different, you mean, right? Then yes, yes I do :P Hehe, smugness aside, imo, it's a pretty trivial flat here. Going back to the fundamentals of poker... What are we getting called by worse, and how likely is it? 44-AA - Almost certain, with an apparant 10 clean outs to 'boat-up'. XXcc. - Debatable. Dependant on raise sizing. Can we ever raise fold here, and if not, what hands would we be up against given a turn 3bet? Ugh, I wouldn't be a huge fan of it, no. 65, 5Xcc - Likely [Crushed/Slight dog] 5X - Unlikely [Chop] Random $paz w/set or FD - Highly Unlikely [We are decent favourite] What's our equity when we get called, ahead Vs behind? Called - A little more money goes in a decent favourite. No action on river from worse. Raised - Chopping for stacks at best, slightly freerolled, or absolutely crushed. Albeit unlikely that villian has 56. Can we get the same value from a river bet, as we do from a turn raise, a decent chunk of the time? Yes. Can we get in a turn raise AND a river bet, for value? Unlikely. Seeing as we can only get 1 more street of value here, given the information available, I go with a flat here and a river Vbet on good rivers. You're still bound to get called from sets if the flush draw bricks out, and you may even catch someone ****-stabbing the river, when we can just snap them off (unlikely, ik). Long story short, we have a 5, and we rep a 5, and we're never getting 2 streets here unless villian is off his/her rocker, and hates money. Flat, underrep our hand, and get that value on the river. I also think a decent chunk of the time we're chopping here and just getting freerolled for stacks if we put a raise in. Honestly? I think this spot (like many others) is completely villian dependant. It's not like you ever have a bluff range here so it's obvious to anyone with half a brain that you have 5X. It's just whether turning our hand face up and getting people to pay for binkage is more profitable than underrepping our hand with a flat, and letting people have equity for cheap while being put to some tougher river decisions. [I could expand and go in-depth, but I'm tired, and CoD4 is calling for me. Enjoy what there is of my derpy brain in this post for a bit. Chowwwwwwwwww]
Posted by Smitalos

Thanks for breakdown, think the bolded bit is pretty much the dilema.
Questionable if we are totaly turning our hand face up, unless we always flat sets/Acxc.
Is it possible our perceived range is wider than just a 5?

Think we get more money by river by raising turn.