Opinions on this line here

LARSON7

Player likes to limp every pot and also likes to call a lot too!

Just wondering, whateveryone thinks of this line here.

Clearly not the best of flops for a set of Jacks! On the turn, i'm going to bet again, i was going to bet smaller, then thought it would look a bit silly, only leaving myself a small amount behind. Especially if another spade was to fall.

Would be interested to hear others views on this!

thebil123	Small blind		30.00	30.00	2177.50
FlyingDagg	Big blind		60.00	90.00	3677.50
	Your hole cards	J J
selkirk	Fold
Triumph62	Fold
x	Call		60.00	150.00	7419.00
LARSON7	Raise		300.00	450.00	3326.00
thebil123	Fold
FlyingDagg	Fold
x	Call		240.00	690.00	7179.00
Flop
		7 J A
x	Check
LARSON7	Bet		517.50	1207.50	2808.50
x	Call		517.50	1725.00	6661.50
Turn
		4
x	Check
LARSON7	All-in		2808.50	4533.50

calcalfold

My tourney brain isnt up to much, so I will say what I would have done, rather than saying this is what you should have done.

Pre: nobody has limped ahead, so I would maybe have raised it to 220

Flop: We are behind AAA, and a flush draw though have outs. As such we can assume that we are often ahead. I bet 375 at the circa 490 pot

We can then bet 2/3 pot turn and give the impression they have some fold equity when really we are nearly always calling it off to a shove on the 4d. Unless we have a mega mega mega read.


Just imo, and FWIW this could well be tactical garbage.

 

gazza127

i raise slightly less pre.  Perhaps 240.  4xbb is enough to account for 1 limper.  Flop I would be betting strong, but into a smaller pot.  Say 400 into a pot of 570.  When he calls the pot would be 1370 and you would have something like 2950 back.

Id then be betting about 900 on the turn.  Assuming a call that would give a pot of 3170 by the river and youd have 2k back to shove in assuming another spade doesnt fall.  If you're raised on the turn - well thats just horrible.

Dont mind it as played, however I think you're only getting called by a made flush when you overbet the turn.  Possibly someone with a pair and the K spades, but you're folding out most Ax hands here.

DOHHHHHHH

Just bet the turn normally.

Anything between 800-1.5k is better than shoving imo.

Given notes on villain I'd just go 1.3k then shove river or something.

Hard to go wrong though, flop set, bet/bet/shove. Easy.

Batkin88

Raise pre is too muc h, you are better off going somewhere in the region of 180-220 regardless of limp IMO. Bet I would bet small to line up the other streets. (The way I would look at this hand is that if he flopped a flush congrats well played but if he has anything else I want him to come all the way through the streets)
Chance of him holding the K of spades are pretty slim unless he limps rag kings IMO. So apart from a rag ace with a low spade kicker I cant see what else I am getting value from which I am beating (apart from an underset)

So pot would now be 490, I like a bet of 240-260 ish here leaving you around 3,400 behind when he calls the pot will increase to 1.2k ish.

Turn you have 2 options dependent on players game, either check raise all in or as I would play now bet around 800 this leaves you 2,600 behind and the pot at 2.8k.

River your decision if it isn't a spade value shove (ul if he flopped the flush) If it is a spade you can still shove as I would find it difficult to put the K in his range (Although prob wrong when you post outcome ...) If you decide to check call a spade river you still have a very playable stack of 2.6k. Tournament life and all!

Batkin88

In Response to Re: Opinions on this line here:

Raise pre is too muc h, you are better off going somewhere in the region of 180-220 regardless of limp IMO. Bet I would bet small to line up the other streets. (The way I would look at this hand is that if he flopped a flush congrats well played but if he has anything else I want him to come all the way through the streets) Chance of him holding the K of spades are pretty slim unless he limps rag kings IMO. So apart from a rag ace with a low spade kicker I cant see what else I am getting value from which I am beating (apart from an underset) So pot would now be 490, I like a bet of 240-260 ish here leaving you around 3,400 behind when he calls the pot will increase to 1.2k ish. Turn you have 2 options dependent on players game, either check raise all in or as I would play now bet around 800 this leaves you 2,600 behind and the pot at 2.8k. River your decision if it isn't a spade value shove (ul if he flopped the flush) If it is a spade you can still shove as I would find it difficult to put the K in his range (Although prob wrong when you post outcome ...) If you decide to check call a spade river you still have a very playable stack of 2.6k. Tournament life and all!
Posted by Batkin88

Edit I would consider folding an ace river aswell if he calls all the way unless he plays most hands.

Lambert180

You'd consider folding an Ace river even though we still beat all Ax hands except A4/A7 and AJ (which is very unlikely cos we have 2 jacks), we've now gone ahead of flopped flushes even though they are hard to come by, and if he does have an underset 44/77 then he thinks he has rivered the world but we still have him beat.

Might go a tiny bit smaller pre but it's not a big deal and if the villian is just a limp/calling station that will probably call whatever you make it, then it's good to go bigger with JJ.

In regard to what you said in OP, I think this is a pretty good flop to make a set on tbh, plenty of ways we can have opponents crushed but in spots where they'll pile money in. Don't forget we still house up/make quads like 1in4 times anyway for the odd time he might have flopped a flush.

As Dohhh said just bet the turn normal, if he's calling with a FD then he's making a mistake and that's what we want... shoving and making him fold a FD (so forcing him to make the correct play) is not what we want imo. I go about 800-900 on the turn

grantorino

Pre sizing fine imo given reads

Turn just b/c smaller, I would go around 1200, jam river on any non spade if called

F_Ivanovic

Completely fine given your reads on player. Usually I would advocate smaller bet sizing to ensure you get paid but I think betting smaller OTT as opposed to betting all in won't change villains calling range that much at all. He could easily have a single spade in his hand that calls a turn shove, but that will get away OTR if he doesn't hit his flush. So rather charge him now.