Any money in poker?

LARSON7

Just had a look at Ivano's thread and someone had said it's got a lot tougher making money in poker at a high level.

Do you think there's much money in poker?

Years ago, say 5-8 years, when online poker was still growing there probably was easy(ier) money at poker as there was not as much information/ knowledge readily available as there is today. Today, there is information strewn all over the internet about how to imrpove your game.

If you look at Sky, for example, at 4nl 10nl there is a lot of regulars. For the most part they play very much a tight ABC style of poker, which works for them as there is quite a lot of inexperienced players who it is easy to get value from. It's not big money, but there is money there.

If you go to 20nl/30nl, there will still be a few players who go there for "fun", as above with 4nl, but there will be a lot more "better" or "experienced" players. This seems to be where a good % of the "regulars" play.

If you then go onto the higher levels, 100nl plus, it seems to be the same faces all the time (on sky), maybe with a few random people thrown in. And on occasion the odd lower stake player taking a punt, but would it not be really difficult to make money if the vast majority of the time you were playing regulars, where someones edge either way would be pretty thin?

The biggest winner i would say is the poker site, it is a fantastic business to run, just collecting rake while not worrying about the outcome of a result.

But for players, would be interested to hear if you feel there is still money in poker.

I would say there probably is, to different levels for certain players depending on where they play. For those that make really good money, i would say must be a very small percentage of the overall population.

Lambert180

Plenty of people (including Sky players) make a living from poker so the money is still out there.

One thing to point out... there's a MASSIVE difference between someone being 'a reg' and someone being good. There are plenty of 'regs'... people who play regualarly who are still not very good at the game OR are good enough to take money off the really weak players and then lose some of that profit to the better regs.

In a deep stack cash game, there is virtually ALWAYS gonna be someone who has an edge.

But yeah the people who make a living from poker are almost certainly considerably less than 1% of the people that play poker.

jordz16

There will always be money to be made in poker, It's just you have to work a lot harder to maintain an edge

LARSON7

I was at the casino a year ago and was talking to a guy that was going on about being a "pro", i wondered what that meant to him.

To him it meant his sole earnings came from poker, he had given up his job. I wondered how it was going for him, i was really surprised with his answer. He said he was making on average 1200-1300 per month. Some months he might make 2k another 600 but 12-13 was his average.

I was really surprised he called himself a pro, and the fact he had left a job for that.

No doubt people do make a living from Sky, but would be interesting to see if anyone makes really decent money.

I can't see many players making 40k plus on the site, in fact, i think it would only be a handful. Maybe including other sites there is a few more.

ajs4385

Theres still money in it just less and less year on year.

jdsallstar

In Response to Re: Any money in poker?:

I was at the casino a year ago and was talking to a guy that was going on about being a "pro", i wondered what that meant to him. To him it meant his sole earnings came from poker, he had given up his job. I wondered how it was going for him, i was really surprised with his answer. He said he was making on average 1200-1300 per month. Some months he might make 2k another 600 but 12-13 was his average. I was really surprised he called himself a pro, and the fact he had left a job for that. No doubt people do make a living from Sky, but would be interesting to see if anyone makes really decent money. I can't see many players making 40k plus on the site, in fact, i think it would only be a handful. Maybe including other sites there is a few more.
Posted by LARSON7

Just a point on this his £1300 a month (£15600 per year) is tax free. So for that guy to earn that wage in paid employment (after tax) his annual salary would be around the 20k a year. Just trying to make the point to consider tax.

But yeah making a good living from poker would be such a small %. 

Jac35

In Response to Re: Any money in poker?:

Theres still money in it just less and less year on year.
Posted by ajs4385

This one always makes me smile.

You're quite possibly correct but ever since I've started playing people say every year it's getting harder.

In 2002 people were saying you could print money in 1999

In 2005 people were saying you could print money in 2002 etc.

We will be saying in a couple of years about how much easier life was in 2013

I agree in the main and I know people will say that with the access available now to all kinds of training sites and such like people should be getting better.

However, there are still many who aren't interested in any of that and just what to play the game.

Online definitely harder cash wise.

Live, Tournaments below a £100 and cash at £50/1, I don't see a huge amount of difference from a few years ago.

DTD aside.

bbMike

In Response to Re: Any money in poker?:

In Response to Re: Any money in poker? : Just a point on this his £1300 a month (£15600 per year) is tax free. So for that guy to earn that wage in paid employment (after tax) his annual salary would be around the 20k a year. Just trying to make the point to consider tax. But yeah making a good living from poker would be such a small %. 
Posted by jdsallstar

Got to be some downsides to not having employer pension or paying NI contributions I'd have thought though? As well as a lack of paid holiday.

A great man once said "swings and swongs".

I think society in general is too fixed on doing everything 'traditionally' (e.g. you must own a home). Provided every individual has all of the information available, let them do with it as they wish.

LARSON7

In Response to Re: Any money in poker?:

In Response to Re: Any money in poker? : Just a point on this his £1300 a month (£15600 per year) is tax free. So for that guy to earn that wage in paid employment (after tax) his annual salary would be around the 20k a year. Just trying to make the point to consider tax. But yeah making a good living from poker would be such a small %. 
Posted by jdsallstar

Yeah, but it's really hard work for that amount, he was spending crazy time playing, and playing that much must diminish the fun element of the game.

DOHHHHHHH

Some people lose an absolute fortune @ poker. I've seen the same people on the cash tables losing day in day out for years. Not improving at all, just piling deposit after deposit in to the site.

00's of 000's @ relatively modest stakes.

Some of the 'shocking' sharkscope graphs you see would be nothing compared to some of the losses of cash players.

Donttelmum

Theres surely quite a few making 30-40k plus.

The_Don90

In Response to Re: Any money in poker?:

Theres surely quite a few making 30-40k plus.
Posted by Donttelmum

I rekon treble that figure

mareeves11

In Response to Any money in poker?:

Just had a look at Ivano's thread and someone had said it's got a lot tougher making money in poker at a high level. Do you think there's much money in poker? Years ago, say 5-8 years, when online poker was still growing there probably was easy(ier) money at poker as there was not as much information/ knowledge readily available as there is today. Today, there is information strewn all over the internet about how to imrpove your game. If you look at Sky, for example, at 4nl 10nl there is a lot of regulars. For the most part they play very much a tight ABC style of poker, which works for them as there is quite a lot of inexperienced players who it is easy to get value from. It's not big money, but there is money there. If you go to 20nl/30nl, there will still be a few players who go there for "fun", as above with 4nl, but there will be a lot more "better" or "experienced" players. This seems to be where a good % of the "regulars" play. If you then go onto the higher levels, 100nl plus, it seems to be the same faces all the time (on sky), maybe with a few random people thrown in. And on occasion the odd lower stake player taking a punt, but would it not be really difficult to make money if the vast majority of the time you were playing regulars, where someones edge either way would be pretty thin? The biggest winner i would say is the poker site, it is a fantastic business to run, just collecting rake while not worrying about the outcome of a result. But for players, would be interested to hear if you feel there is still money in poker. I would say there probably is, to different levels for certain players depending on where they play. For those that make really good money, i would say must be a very small percentage of the overall population.
Posted by LARSON7

There are far more players that don`t  play by the `old` school rules ie fold if you have no hand but I might get lucky

mareeves11

In Response to Any money in poker?:

Just had a look at Ivano's thread and someone had said it's got a lot tougher making money in poker at a high level. Do you think there's much money in poker? Years ago, say 5-8 years, when online poker was still growing there probably was easy(ier) money at poker as there was not as much information/ knowledge readily available as there is today. Today, there is information strewn all over the internet about how to imrpove your game. If you look at Sky, for example, at 4nl 10nl there is a lot of regulars. For the most part they play very much a tight ABC style of poker, which works for them as there is quite a lot of inexperienced players who it is easy to get value from. It's not big money, but there is money there. If you go to 20nl/30nl, there will still be a few players who go there for "fun", as above with 4nl, but there will be a lot more "better" or "experienced" players. This seems to be where a good % of the "regulars" play. If you then go onto the higher levels, 100nl plus, it seems to be the same faces all the time (on sky), maybe with a few random people thrown in. And on occasion the odd lower stake player taking a punt, but would it not be really difficult to make money if the vast majority of the time you were playing regulars, where someones edge either way would be pretty thin? The biggest winner i would say is the poker site, it is a fantastic business to run, just collecting rake while not worrying about the outcome of a result. But for players, would be interested to hear if you feel there is still money in poker. I would say there probably is, to different levels for certain players depending on where they play. For those that make really good money, i would say must be a very small percentage of the overall population.
Posted by LARSON7

There are far more players that don`t  play by the `old` school rules ie fold if you have no hand but I might get lucky

jams88

Imo there is more money in live poker than online. I grind nl20 online atm to make a small profit but i can play nl100 at the casino and expect to make a profit 4/5 times that i play. Gotta love the fact live you can see when people are steaming or just drunk

rancid

Everyone thinks there's money in poker but then realise they are actually not good enough to make any

NMIPEIS

Jac35

In Response to Re: Any money in poker?:

Imo there is more money in live poker than online. I grind nl20 online atm to make a small profit but i can play nl100 at the casino and expect to make a profit 4/5 times that i play. Gotta love the fact live you can see when people are steaming or just drunk
Posted by jams88

Very similar for me.

Only trouble is I'm the drunk one in the casino'

Smitalos

Theres surely quite a few making 30-40k plus.
Posted by Donttelmum

Sexy subtle brag

I rekon treble that figure
Posted by The_Don90

I can confirm this.

(not so subtle... :P)


Srsly now, it's for sure something that (i'd hope anyway) current pros or aspiring pros take into consideration. The long-term future of online poker looks pretty grim imo, and even Dwan came out a few years ago and said that he thought online cash would be dead in the next 5-7 years.

Poker is such a beautiful game, the best I've ever come across in so many ways. Simple beginnings, yet an extremely complex learning curve. The almost perfect blend of skill and luck, logic and emotion, leaving most players clueless to their mistakes.

While I'm of the belief that there are a few "Poker Booms" out there waiting to happen (a female boom, an asian boom, etc), imo, it's all gunna be a little too late in saving online cash poker. Now, it's just a question of when. (I give it another 4 years).