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wrong wrong wrong???
waller02
Member Posts: 9,072
Hand in the early stages on 12k BH........oppo is harry (he is fine with his name being left in).
Should I be 4betting pre?? The reason I didn't is because I didn't wanna get it in pre this early if I was 5 bet. Could I 4bet/fold or is that very bad?? As played what do I do on the flop??? Think I played this hand all wrong!!! Help!
Should I be 4betting pre?? The reason I didn't is because I didn't wanna get it in pre this early if I was 5 bet. Could I 4bet/fold or is that very bad?? As played what do I do on the flop??? Think I played this hand all wrong!!! Help!
| hhyftrftdr | Small blind | 15.00 | 15.00 | 2062.50 | |
| Tsaaaar | Big blind | 30.00 | 45.00 | 1865.00 | |
| Your hole cards |
| ||||
| Hoff92 | Fold | ||||
| GLASSBOY | Fold | ||||
| unbpower | Fold | ||||
| waller02 | Raise | 90.00 | 135.00 | 1895.00 | |
| hhyftrftdr | Raise | 195.00 | 330.00 | 1867.50 | |
| Tsaaaar | Fold | ||||
| waller02 | Call | 120.00 | 450.00 | 1775.00 | |
| Flop | |||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| |||||
| hhyftrftdr | Bet | 280.00 | 730.00 | 1587.50 | |
| waller02 | ?? | ||||
Comments
I wouldn't 4 bet pre, just call in position.
The range is pretty tight here, Aces Kings Queens, AK, i would say.
On the turn, i don't mind calling 1 street, and re assessing on the turn, if he fires out again.
A fold is fine too, i wouldn't be reraising we are only getting called by better, plus we become pretty pot stuck.
The only hand we are really beating is AK, if we call the flop ak is most likely shutting down on the turn to a non ace or king turn.
He could have a lower pocket pair 88s through to 10s but i highly doubt he would be taking this line pre flop.
I would prob fold, but i dont mind a call either.
That's all that matters though. If you're considering 4-betting, just ask yourself what ranges Harry a) 3-bets from the small blind versus your button raise and b) which hands he continues with to your 4-bet.
If Harry is expecting us to be raising the button with a wide range, then there's no reason to think his 3-betting range is as narrow as premium hands only. In fact, I'd guess his range is an awful lot wider than that. I wouldn't be surprised if his range includes lots of Ax, Kx and small pairs. (He would be less inclined to set-mine his small pairs if he perceives us to have a wide raising range, particularly OOP and not knowing if we're going to barrel multiple streets light)
So if Harry's 3-betting range is wide, what range does he continue with to a 4-bet? Well that is, again, player and dynamic dependent and I've never played the guy, nor do I know your history with him. It's reasonable to assume, however, that he won't be peeling 4-bets with a wide range at all. So to 4-bet I think we have to be happy to get it in pre-flop a lot, which means we'd have to think he's going to 5-bet with lots of weaker hands than our JJ. We can't just be crossing our fingers and hoping he's got AK.
Since you're asking the question about this situation, I think it's reasonable for us to think that there isn't some funky dynamic between you and this villain that allows you to believe he's going to 5-bet light versus you, or 5-bet for value versus you with hands like TT or AJ.
If these assumptions are correct, it looks like flatting the 3-bet in position is fine. You'd presumably be flatting with lots of KQ, 9T, small pairs as well so your range is not unbalanced by the call... You may want to flat with AA or KK too, if his 3-betting range is very wide and he's going to barrel a lot.
Anyway, post-flop there's no reason to raise. If he's playing a weaker hand than us like AK, AQ, or some raggy Ax, etc. we don't want to make him fold. If he's playing AA, KK or QQ, we don't want to hand him our stack. If we raise we're basically repping an overpair, which is bad since it's what we have. Just flat and see if he wants to bet again on the turn.
All these situations really are is a question about your opponent's range:
i) What range does he 3-bet versus me, blind vs button?
ii) What ranges does he fold/call/5-bet to my button 4-bet?
iii) What range does he continue with on wet/dry/low/high flops against me if I flat his 3-bet?
iv) What range does he barrel multiple streets vs me on wet/dry/low/high boards?
Knowing that is all about the dynamic between you. If he's never 3-bet your button before, give him more credit. If he's 3-bet your button lots of times, give him less. There's no clear answer. Just get used to thinking of these situations as a function of your opponent's range. Don't think "I have JJ, what do I do?". Think "My opponent's range is XYZ, how does my hand fare against that and what do I want to happen?"
The flop is where I make the BIG mistake. I raise and the chips end up in the middle. I looked back on the hand straight away and wasn't sure why I raised........if I think I'm good on that flop then I should be calling to keep any bluffs in plus I may as well have 4 bet pre (correct?). I take on board everyone's comments. (great post borin ty)
Harry had 10 5.......he doesn't mind me posting it as he says it is good for his image lol. At the time he said why didn't I 4 bet?? But like I said, I didn't have a clue what his 3 bet range was.
4-betting to make him fold the weakest hands in his range is obviously not good thinking. I'd assume Harry was joking there. We'd only want to 4-bet if we think he can still call or 5-bet with plenty of worse hands. We don't want him folding his weak hands and continuing with his strong hands.
Getting it in on the flop is probably worse than 4-betting pre-flop. We stack off to his AA, KK or QQ either way but by jamming the flop we force him to fold his AK or AQ hands which he's probably stacking off with pre-flop. So I'd say 4-betting pre-flop is better than raising this flop. It's probably never a particularly good idea to 4-bet JJ readless.